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post #6711 of 16277
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

Agreed for the most part, but Gentle Typhoons also have higher CFM for their RPM than most other fans (maybe all other 120mm fans below 2000rpm). It's why they're better on radiators than commercially-available 140mm fans. And while the R2 is quieter at 5V and 7V, the AP14 is quieter still. That is what particularly bothers me: the R2s aren't great air movers in the first place, least of all through filters, and yet my several-hundred-RPM-faster GTs are still quieter. Of my fans, the only ones I have louder than my R2s are my Noctua P12s. They have a sound quality that just... bothers me. "Rough" is the best description I can think of.

(My Noiseblocker I can't really compare fairly. It's ridiculously quiet. Not good through filters either, but I can't think of a better exhaust fan. The only reason I replaced mine with an 800RPM GT is because the cable isn't long enough and I don't have an extension.)

Athlon, I strongly doubt the R2s push that much air. My testing is pretty subjective but I've seen nothing to suggest it moves more air than my AP14s (makes sense since the AP14s are 400-500RPM faster) and the AP14s don't move 67CFM. Methinks the marketing department was pretty liberal with its estimate.

I think you mean they have higher static pressure than many fans, not more CFM than most fans. And CFM is not everything. Air is moved in very different ways. It can be pulled in by a fan but then exhausted in an odd cone, with a lot of air escaping toward the sides of the frame. Or it can be well-collimated and travel mostly forward. "CFM" can only really be objectively measured for comparison purposes from a fan if you put a shroud tube onto the exhaust side and measured ALL of the air escaping that fan some predetermined distance away.

GTs are good at moving air through resitricted spaces--but not too restricted. They can get choked up on very densely spaced fin radiators. They have fairly high static pressure and terrible ability to carry air across distance. R2 Silent fans are case airflow fans, which is how they are meant to be. They may have poor static pressure, but they carry air across distances fairly well at low noise. I can feel air from them good 20cm and more away easily even at 5V speed. If you put your hand over downvolted GTs AP-14s , you won't feel anything over like 10cm.

Which brings the following point: they are for completely different purposes, not to mention completely different sizes. Also, I can't hear the R2 Silent fan in my R4 at 800RPM, and the equivalent RPM for total CFM could be as high as 1000-1100RPM, which I would start to hear on a GT AP-14. A GT would be good for rear exhaust on a case, but to be honest, most fans would be good for that, since you don't care what happens to the air after it leaves the case. For case airflow inside the case, GTs are really bad fans.
Edited by ElevenEleven - 3/6/13 at 7:33pm
   
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post #6712 of 16277

what u guys think i should do next?
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post #6713 of 16277
No, I meant CFM / RPM for most 120mm fans (particularly at the speeds we typically run our fans), just as Martin (Martinsliquidlab.org) deduced in his fan testing. It's higher CFM / RPM is precisely why it dominates the noise / CFM game for sub-2000rpm fans, since you can run it at lower speeds than other fans but achieve the same CFM. Air pressure is basically a function of air density over a given area; a Gentle Typhoon, for example, has a smaller effective area (especially with that big ol' hub) than an R2, whose airflow is spread over a much larger effective area. If both fans were moving the exact same amount of air, the GT's pressure would be higher simply because it's concentrated over a smaller area. Since AP14s move more air (CFM) than R2s, and over a smaller area, their total pressure (Pascals or whatever unit of measuring pressure you prefer) is significantly higher.

Fun experiment. Take your favorite few fans and install them in the Define's front fan mounts. Make sure the filter is in place. Put your hand in your case, about even with your CPU cooler, the back of your hand facing the front fans. At all voltages, the R2 fans move less air than the AP14s. In fact, you don't begin to feel any significant air flow from the R2s at 12V until just before the motherboard tray. Knock it down to 7V and it creeps even closer to the fans. Down to 5V, and it's still closer to the fans, though not by much. 10CM of reach in the best cased (12V) scenario. Pop off the filter, and I "feel" about 50% greater reach. (Next time I test this it'll be somewhat more structured and while the case is not in its "working" place, which is in a wire rack that's a bit harder to access fully.)

The R2 might be a decent fan on its own, but behind a highly-restrictive obstruction like the Define R4's fan filter it falters in a big way. The motor noise/clicking of the R2 at 7V and 5V are unacceptable for me for the amount of air two R2s up front can actually move through that filter and into the case. I get that the R2s and Gentle Typhoons are for completely different purposes; what I'm trying to convey is that the front fan position is an awful one for the R2s because of the fan filter. High-impedance environments favor higher pressure fans, and the GTs are clear winners over the R2s in this area.
    
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post #6714 of 16277
Quote:
Originally Posted by edelfurioso View Post

what u guys think i should do next?

You could paint the expansion slot covers smile.gif I just spray painted mine black and it looks a lot better
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post #6715 of 16277
Quote:
Originally Posted by crsn00 View Post

You could paint the expansion slot covers smile.gif I just spray painted mine black and it looks a lot better

sad-smiley-002.gif why you no like the white!!!!!!!!
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post #6716 of 16277
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

No, I meant CFM / RPM for most 120mm fans (particularly at the speeds we typically run our fans), just as Martin (Martinsliquidlab.org) deduced in his fan testing. It's higher CFM / RPM is precisely why it dominates the noise / CFM game for sub-2000rpm fans, since you can run it at lower speeds than other fans but achieve the same CFM. Air pressure is basically a function of air density over a given area; a Gentle Typhoon, for example, has a smaller effective area (especially with that big ol' hub) than an R2, whose airflow is spread over a much larger effective area. If both fans were moving the exact same amount of air, the GT's pressure would be higher simply because it's concentrated over a smaller area. Since AP14s move more air (CFM) than R2s, and over a smaller area, their total pressure (Pascals or whatever unit of measuring pressure you prefer) is significantly higher.

Fun experiment. Take your favorite few fans and install them in the Define's front fan mounts. Make sure the filter is in place. Put your hand in your case, about even with your CPU cooler, the back of your hand facing the front fans. At all voltages, the R2 fans move less air than the AP14s. In fact, you don't begin to feel any significant air flow from the R2s at 12V until just before the motherboard tray. Knock it down to 7V and it creeps even closer to the fans. Down to 5V, and it's still closer to the fans, though not by much. 10CM of reach in the best cased (12V) scenario. Pop off the filter, and I "feel" about 50% greater reach. (Next time I test this it'll be somewhat more structured and while the case is not in its "working" place, which is in a wire rack that's a bit harder to access fully.)

The R2 might be a decent fan on its own, but behind a highly-restrictive obstruction like the Define R4's fan filter it falters in a big way. The motor noise/clicking of the R2 at 7V and 5V are unacceptable for me for the amount of air two R2s up front can actually move through that filter and into the case. I get that the R2s and Gentle Typhoons are for completely different purposes; what I'm trying to convey is that the front fan position is an awful one for the R2s because of the fan filter. High-impedance environments favor higher pressure fans, and the GTs are clear winners over the R2s in this area.

Then it would maybe be a good solution to use the r2 for exaust and two corsair af"s at intake?
post #6717 of 16277
Absolutely. Exhausts have a fairly easy job, especially if you cut away the unnecessarily restrictive mesh and remove that barrier from air leaving the case. Pick a nice, quiet fan, low or variable speed, and be happy. smile.gif
    
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post #6718 of 16277
Just ordered my fractal arc midi r2! Can't wait for it to come in.. smile.gif
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post #6719 of 16277
Core 1000 gets a USB 3.0 in the front thumb.gif

Just saw it and thought it would be interesting for someone who is going to buy a Core 1K.

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post #6720 of 16277
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

Absolutely. Exhausts have a fairly easy job, especially if you cut away the unnecessarily restrictive mesh and remove that barrier from air leaving the case. Pick a nice, quiet fan, low or variable speed, and be happy. smile.gif

For this very reason I have become a huge fan of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186081

Only had 2 to begin with (for the top exhaust) and eventually bought 3 more (rear exhaust, side panel and bottom) replacing the Fractals altogether. Even when I dial them all the way up through my sentry they seem almost non-existent.

I do not know how to measure CFM by myself but these buggers do indeed move ALOT of air.
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