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post #9251 of 16056
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

The testing was not perfect but I would say it is definitive. Also I would like to define static pressure to you so you understand what it means. Pressure and static pressure don't necessarily mean the same thing. Static pressure is pressure but pressure doesn't necessarily mean static pressure. Static pressure is measured with no flow so 0 CFM at 100% fan speed. It doesn't perfectly apply to a fan on a radiator. We can assume that a fan with a higher static pressure is going to have more pressure while on the radiator but that is an assumption. Also what makes a fan have good static pressure has a lot to do with things that also make the fan flow more air (blade profile and rpm).

A 140mm fan that has 60cfm ability is going to have less pressure than a 120mm fan that has 60cfm ability but it is also going to be running at a lower RPM and noise.

A 140mm fan and a 120mm with similar blade design and noise output are going to have similar pressure levels but the 140mm is going to be moving a lot more air.

In other words in nearly all situations a 140mm radiator and fan is going to outperform a 120mm at the same noise level.

If you still don't understand and buy into this then do yourself a favor and swap out your radiator for a double thick dual 80mm radiator since it will obviously perform better.

Anytime you can run a 140x2 over a 120x2 then you should do so unless you already own the 120x2 radiator.
Okay. Agree with most of that and I was never disagreeing. A fans static pressure rating is more of a measure of how it performs under resistance(like from a rad). Trust me that I know what static pressure is. Once again, just stating that there are other factors.
Edited by gdubc - 9/10/13 at 11:05am
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post #9252 of 16056
What about putting same 120 fans like SP120 or GT on 240mm & 280mm rads to compare? I still think size really matter.
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post #9253 of 16056
Quote:
Originally Posted by blade4246 View Post

What about putting same 120 fans like SP120 or GT on 240mm & 280mm rads to compare? I still think size really matter.
If you did a setup with the same fans on two different size rads the bigger rad would outperform of course.
Edited by gdubc - 9/10/13 at 11:06am
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post #9254 of 16056
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdubc View Post

My point is there are other factors to consider, how is this invalid?
Like I said before, i was never trying to argue anything with anyone about what would be better, only that there are other things to consider. This is the fractal thread and not the watercooling thread, so not everyone on here is going to be so knowledgeable about it.

Just not so sure what you are going on about.
I don't even know what you are trying to say in the first part of your post. My bringing up the other coolers was to prove my point that it doesn't all come down to size. No need to take the piss when I am just trying to clarify some things for others.

There are no more factors to consider when picking a 280mm rad with a pair or two of 140mm fans than when picking a 240mm rad with a pair or two of 120mm rads.

Yeah, and that's exactly why I'm having a go at you for spreading missinformation. If they don't know and they see some chap posting long comments stating things as if they were fact, they're likely to take that comment seriously.

Compare what's comparable. H220s are not like other All In One solutions. If you want to compare AiOs compare the H100 (240mm rad) and the Kraken X60 (280mm rad). I'm guessing that they've got about the same thickness and fpi (could be wrong though) and both use fans that aren't the best performers. That's stuff you can compare.

No, your not clarifying anything, you typing a lot of words on your keyboard but you are in no way clarifying anything. If anything, you're confusing people even more than they would've been.

If you want a 240mm rad, you're going to look for good fans if not the best fans. I see no reason why if you wanted a 280mm rad you'd just end up with a couple of bad fans. There doesn't have to be hundreds of options out there, a couple is enough. 280mm radiators are a viable option.


PS: I was initially going to have a go at that person telling another he should have a 280mm up top instead of his 240mm since it made no sense and I can't see why anybody would say such a thing. Especially considering a 280mm, depending on thickness and number of fans, will cause issue such as blocking the rear fan slot, ram or CPU cable. I think he was saying something like "shame on you, it's a disgrace to watercooling / the R4" (again, this isn't an actually quote). He then went on telling him how terrible his cable management was, which is fine, criticism can be good and push people towards the right direction. What bothered me was that when the other user asked for a bit of help he sent him off telling him to figure it out on his own.
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post #9255 of 16056
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdubc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade4246 View Post

What about putting same 120 fans like SP120 or GT on 240mm & 280mm rads to compare? I still think size really matter.
If you did a setup with the same fans on two different size rads the bigger rad would outperform of course.

If you take a 140 radiator and put a 120 fan on it the rad will out perform the 120 on a 120 radiator but it may be a very small amount. HOWEVER if you put a 140mm fan with the same type of blades and the same RPM the 140mm fan will out perform the 120mm fan. Same holds true on a 120mm radiator as long as your using an adapter. A 140mm fan with the same rpm and blade style will out perform a 120mm fan on a 120mm radiator.

In all scenarios and examples including fin spacing, rad thickness, with shroud or without shroud a 140mm fan and radiator will always out perform a 120mm fan and radiator that has similar rad thickness, fin spacing, blade design, and noise.

The 140 will always be more efficient per noise and per rpm.

I don't know what your "other factors" are unless maybe your sticking your finger in the 140mm fan and not the 120mm fan but in ALL scenarios where you have the "factors" fair the 140 will win. Always!

The one scenario I can give you where a 140 would probably loose is if you take the best 120mm fan vs the best 140mm fan no holds bar because I don't think there is a 140mm fan that is as powerful as a PFC1212DE... but I may be wrong. If a 5500RPM beast of a fan like the PFC1212DE exists in 140mm trim then again 140 is going to win.
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post #9256 of 16056
All I was saying, kevin, is there are other factors than just getting a 280 and sticking it up top and its going to just be better. There are many factors to consider when choosing what fans and what rad to use. Any of my posts were in relation to that first statement of the bigger rad being better just because. Im using my phone by the way, lol.
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post #9257 of 16056
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

If you take a 140 radiator and put a 120 fan on it the rad will out perform the 120 on a 120 radiator but it may be a very small amount. HOWEVER if you put a 140mm fan with the same type of blades and the same RPM the 140mm fan will out perform the 120mm fan. Same holds true on a 120mm radiator as long as your using an adapter. A 140mm fan with the same rpm and blade style will out perform a 120mm fan on a 120mm radiator.

In all scenarios and examples including fin spacing, rad thickness, with shroud or without shroud a 140mm fan and radiator will always out perform a 120mm fan and radiator that has similar rad thickness, fin spacing, blade design, and noise.

The 140 will always be more efficient per noise and per rpm.

I don't know what your "other factors" are unless maybe your sticking your finger in the 140mm fan and not the 120mm fan but in ALL scenarios where you have the "factors" fair the 140 will win. Always!

The one scenario I can give you where a 140 would probably loose is if you take the best 120mm fan vs the best 140mm fan no holds bar because I don't think there is a 140mm fan that is as powerful as a PFC1212DE... but I may be wrong. If a 5500RPM beast of a fan like the PFC1212DE exists in 140mm trim then again 140 is going to win.
Agree with you again on these points. I am not sure what you are saying that is much different than what I have said. My point was there are factors to consider, like that you can't just easily go and get a 140mm fan that compares to say a gt45. Therefore, one needs to consider that factor when choosing what rad they want, and consider the differing factors of the radiators available. factors(just cuz we are saying factors a lot now)
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post #9258 of 16056
Speaking of 140mm rads. Does anybody know any that will definitely fit in the front of the Arc Midi R2? I'm looking at a few different options but it looks like it will be cutting it close...
post #9259 of 16056
Seems like you're arguing 2 different points - 1 says "140mm fans could technically be better because more space" and the other says "but the choice of fan still matters - a better 120mm fan would outperform a bad 140mm fan".

Best thing? Both are absolutely correct thumb.gif
post #9260 of 16056
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo27fire View Post

Speaking of 140mm rads. Does anybody know any that will definitely fit in the front of the Arc Midi R2? I'm looking at a few different options but it looks like it will be cutting it close...

Can't really answer that question without knowing whether or not you're keeping the 5.25' cage smile.gif.

PS: what do you mean by 140mm rads ? Rads that use 140mm fans (so it could be a 140 or a 280) or simply 140mm rads ?
Edited by steelkevin - 9/10/13 at 12:06pm
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Current rig
(16 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 @3800MHz P7P55D R9 290 @1150/1450MHz 2*4GB Hyper X Black @1600 MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial M4 64 Gig (7mm version) Custom Water Cooling, details in signature. Windows 8 Pro LG Flatron W2243S 21.5" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Lycosa OCZ StealthXstream 2 700W Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 Razer Deathadder 3500dpi 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Razer Scarab Razer Carcharias V2 (X360/PC) Roccat Apuri mouse Bungee / usb hub Samsung HDD 7200 rpm 1To 
CPUGraphicsPowerOther
EK Supreme HF CU Full copper EK-FC R9-290X - Nickel  MCP350 Alphacool DDC plexi top 
OtherOtherOtherOther
EK Coolstream XTC 280mm + 2x D14SM-12 Yate Loon... EK Coolstream XTC 280mm + 4x Akasa Apache (push... Alphacool Cape Corp Coolplex 250ml reservoir 8/11mm ClearFlex60 tubing 
OtherOther
Mayhems Blue Berry Pastel + 9mL Mayhems blue dye Phobya fittings: 2x 45° | 2x 90° | 6x Straight 
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