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GHZ dont matter no more? - Page 2

post #11 of 24
So far everyone is wrong as why P4s and Ds at high clocks perform say....slower compared to a 2.4ghz Conroe and A64 & X2.

Reason: Simple, P4s and Ds have a 31 stage-pipelines compared to Conroe's 14's and A64s and X2s which I think it's 12 (not 100% sure on that).

Why P4s and Ds run hot? Because of the same reason, a 31 stage pipeline uses 100+ watts of thermal output compared to Conroe's 14 stage and 65W of thermal output.

Netburst CPUs have to overclock pass 4.0ghz to start showing some high benchmark numbers, due to the 31 stage pipelines, Dothan and Yonah have 12 stage pipelines, yet you will never see one at 4.0ghz+.

Comparing a Pentium 4 or D to an A64 or X2 is like comparing an Excursion V10 to a Civic Hybrid.

Remember, it's the stage pipelines in the CPU that count (the most) but lot of people overlooks that factor and focus in the speed mostly.

BTW, what P4 and D has not hit over 4.0ghz? Exactly!

Look at these benchmarks when you overclock a 31 stage pipeline CPU: see link.

If, which will never happen, Conroe were to have 31 stage pipelines than you'll see Conroe @ 3.4ghz and upto 4.0ghz and overclocking to 5.0ghz+.
post #12 of 24
Heh... Ghz never mattered, Intel just wanted you to think they did... lol

Pretty much in the early 2000's it was a battle for the highest Mhz. Now it is a battle for the highest TPC (ticks per clock) as Ropy likes to call it.
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post #13 of 24
technically i think MHZ never mattered since AMD and Intel were around and battling each other in speed....but Intel had a good marketing tool so laymen think higher Mhz = better......about 45% of the population dont know jack about computers....that stat may be off but.. Intel got a huge boost with their numbers and is the *trusted USA processor company*...but AMD is better * in certain dimensions *thats why the Conroe downed on the Ghz...cause the more ghz...more electrical current...more heat....bigger chip size..in my theory as procs progress their architecture will definetly renew and the speed will be like 2GHZ but it will own any proc.....7GHZ+ right now.... more cycles per operation = smaller die...less heat....ect...its basically the future.

crap sorry didnt read Pauldovi's thread. basically same point.
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post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by u.c.i.n.e.x.
technically i think MHZ never mattered since AMD and Intel were around and battling each other in speed....but Intel had a good marketing tool so laymen think higher Mhz = better......about 45% of the population dont know jack about computers....that stat may be off but.. Intel got a huge boost with their numbers and is the *trusted USA processor company*...but AMD is better * in certain dimensions *thats why the Conroe downed on the Ghz...cause the more ghz...more electrical current...more heat....bigger chip size..in my theory as procs progress their architecture will definetly renew and the speed will be like 2GHZ but it will own any proc.....7GHZ+ right now.... more cycles per operation = smaller die...less heat....ect...its basically the future.

crap sorry didnt read Pauldovi's thread. basically same point.
I would hate to tell you, but the future of computers lays in fiberoptics and superconductors. Hasn't been decided yet which one (nor will it be for some time), but C60 will allow for mad fast computer consuming <1W.
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post #15 of 24
The 2 main factors are A: pipeline length as explained above as well as B: Ops/cycle as hinted at several times above lol. I'll go into detail on B,

An Intel CPU can do 6 ops/cycle or 6 operations per cycle, at 3GHz an Intel Pentium 4 is doing 6x3,000,000,000 (3 Billion) operations per second, since 1GHz is 1 Billion Hertz and 1 Hertz is 1 cycle per second. An AMD CPU can do 9 ops/cycle so basically a 2GHz AMD is just as fast as a 3GHz Intel, if all other variables are constant, now add into that the fact that an AMD Athlon 64 has much lower latency cache memory (it can read/write to its L1 and L2 cache much faster than an Intel CPU can) has more L1 cache (typically 64KB+64KB for a San Diego core vs. 16KB+12KB (per core) for a Presler core (highest L1 caches for AMD and Intel are the San Diego and Presler cores, respectively, the first number is the L1 trace and the second number is the L1 data). Also factor in that the AMD has a shorter pipeline meaning it takes less time for each physical operation to be completed and you have yourself a real winner. The only real advantage that Intel CPUs have these days are the fact that they generally have more cache (L2) but this is because their cache is slower latency wise so it is cheaper for Intel to simply add in cache, and Intel's clock speed is finally starting to pay off with the Cedar Mill and Presler CPUs, as somebody said Net Burst architecture never really comes into its own until it is overclocked above 4GHz, these new Cedar Mill and Presler cores can easily be clocked up to about 4.4GHz on air and over 5GHz on water (highest I've seen for water is 5.2GHz) My Pentium D 930 at 4.21GHz with an 1120FSB kills any FX60 in pretty much any benchmark and can get higher FPS in games too, even when the FX60 is overclocked to 3GHz because at this point my CPU is truly taking advantage of the added bandwidth of DDR2 580 in a 1:1 ratio and the netburst's 31 stage pipeline is able to quickly finish operations.
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post #16 of 24
As I said, there's so many variables that we could factor in. GHz do matter, to a degree.
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post #17 of 24
Here you go. I posted this a little while ago.
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post #18 of 24
Quote:
As I said, there's so many variables that we could factor in. GHz do matter, to a degree.
GHZ is everything. After all a 2.0ghz AMD is not as fas as a 2.6ghz, so it's just a matter of how those ghz can be obtain and how well they work in conjunction with the whole architecture of the CPU.

In AMD or Intel, that's what all about it but for Intel is what the whole deal of Netburst is, clock speed.

Things went south for Netburst with the introduction of Conroe but most likely they will clock pretty high as well, not in the 4.0gh+ but maybe with a Conroe Extreme Edition.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasgul
GHZ is everything. After all a 2.0ghz AMD is not as fas as a 2.6ghz, so it's just a matter of how those ghz can be obtain and how well they work in conjunction with the whole architecture of the CPU.

In AMD or Intel, that's what all about it but for Intel is what the whole deal of Netburst is, clock speed.

Things went south for Netburst with the introduction of Conroe but most likely they will clock pretty high as well, not in the 4.0gh+ but maybe with a Conroe Extreme Edition.
Try running a 3.0Ghz Celeron D against a 2.4Ghz P4. Tell me which one does better? They are the same architecture... Just the P4 has 4x the L2 cache. Mhz is not the most significant thing in the world. L2 cache, FSB, and the way it executes data is just as important.
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post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldovi
Try running a 3.0Ghz Celeron D against a 2.4Ghz P4. Tell me which one does better?
I think you missed part of my point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasgul
so it's just a matter of how those ghz can be obtain and how well they work in conjunction with the whole architecture of the CPU.
The W-H-O-L-E architecture. Some have have 256KB, 512KB, 1MB and 2MB. Some have HT some don't HT, some have 533mhz fsb and some have 800mhz fsb.

As for the 3.0ghz Celeron D? Of course it's going to be faster than the 2.4ghz P4, why? because the Celeron D will be on a 533mhz fsb just like the 2.4ghz and the 2.4ghz does not have 4x the L2 cache that the D is. The P4 2.4ghz only comes with a 512KB and the Celron D 3.06ghz comes with 256KB. So the extra 606mhz would make the difference in performance not the cache.

Also remember that a 560 is not faster than a 660 despite double the ammount of L2 cache. The 6 series are better in terms of heat and 64-bit, other than that, it's the same.
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