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post #161 of 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ufasas;12520671 
http://www.cmstorm.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9353&postcount=11

was talking about this one :S





btw, there's a small mistake, on the sheet 2 mice are mentioned twice:

A4Tech X718BK/X-748K
A4Tech X718BK/X-748K

tongue.gif


Ahh, that sucks. Might just be a specific pad though.



Also, I just noticed that reference [1]

http://sokupochi.com/game_device/mousesensor/

Looks like a direct copy of this thread. I don't mind if it is copied, although I don't understand how it can be a reference at the same time.

I'm only suspicious because I previously estimated "1.5m/s ?" malfunction listed for the kinzu. Those results aren't based on any graph or test unless someone actually used outerspace's logger and I happen to have guessed right.

Another similarity is the Zowie Ec1/Ec2. The "2.23m/s?" I listed isn't the exact malfunction rate, although I suspect it to be slightly higher due to Zowie's custom SROM. I took those results from ESR's MS2007 test on the A4tech X7 X-710BF since they both use the same ADNS-3060 sensor.

Again, it doesn't bother me since this should be public information, although I also don't want people recording the wrong information or results tongue.gif
Edited by Skylit - 2/25/11 at 11:49pm
post #162 of 1564
I had tried to correct the double A4Tech X718BK/X-748K entry. Looking around I found that sokupochi site and it seemed to have some info on that. However, I double checked with an older local copy of our sheet I had made some time and that was more like it but not quite right either I think.
On www.x7.cn itself, you'll find the following:

3200dpi
X-748K
X-738K
X-718BK

2000dpi
X-755K
X-718BF
X-718F
X-718
X-710BK
X-710BH
X-710MK
X-705K

AK-47
X-710FS
X-705FS
X-766FS
X-755FS

1000dpi
X-710F
X-710MF
X-710BF
X-710
X-708
X-705F

So now I just assumed "1000DPI" and "2000DPI" are Avagao 3060 and "3200DPI" is 3080. Hope that's not too far from the truth wink.gif
post #163 of 1564
All X-7x8 have 3080. All X-710 - 3060. Dont know about 708 and 705.
Edited by outerspace - 2/27/11 at 4:29am
post #164 of 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;12529339 
Also, I just noticed that reference [1]

http://sokupochi.com/game_device/mousesensor/

Looks like a direct copy of this thread. I don't mind if it is copied, although I don't understand how it can be a reference at the same time.

For a4tech he JUST COPY my results... It's incorrect copy cuz 3 m/s is only my measuerment limit, NOT real malfuntion speed... But he (copier) didnt note that.

So sokupochi.com cant be rference for shure.
Edited by outerspace - 2/27/11 at 6:49am
post #165 of 1564
Added lift-off distance / weight / comments for the Logitech g9. I have a question tho. I've heard that the MX518 doesn't track as well as the WMO at 400 CPI. Is this true? If so, why? and if so, at what CPI will the MX518s sensor perform best, and how do I determine that for other sensors (like the one used by the g9).
Edited by cuad - 2/27/11 at 11:39pm
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post #166 of 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuad;12545077 
Added weight / comments for the g9. I have a question tho. I've heard that the MX518 doesn't track as well as the WMO at 400 CPI. Is this true? If so, why? and if so, at what CPI will the MX518s sensor perform best, and how do I determine that for other sensors (like the one used by the g9).


The 518 has a much higher perfect control and malfunction rate.

The WMO will show noticeable negative acceleration past 1.5m/s while the 518 loses perfect control at or around the WMO's malfunction rate of 2.10m/s. The 3080 was built for 400 and 1600 CPI steps although newer iterations of the sensor (3080E) scale up to 1800 CPI. Logitech Drivers are somewhat glitchy with the 3080E and actually lower the PC and MR's, so it's advised not to use them. Concerning polling rate, that can be bumped manually.


Sensor performance: 518> WMO
IF you don't want mouse correction: WMO>518
Lift off distance: WMO>518
Quality: 518>WMO
Weight: wmo 79g, 518 106g (preference).
Edited by Skylit - 2/27/11 at 4:29pm
post #167 of 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;12547642 
(...)
Concerning polling rate, that can be bumped manually.

(...)

http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=4
is a good start to understand polling rate overclocking which can be a huge advantage like with a WMO.
However, in the case of the MX518
http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=14
the rates are not affected since it has got a 16bit data path anyway. So it won't suffer from negative acceleration due to the 125Hz.
Also, not all mice are overclockable. Some just respond at 125Hz no matter what you set it to with hidusbf.
Edited by Kragarmendes - 2/28/11 at 3:44am
post #168 of 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kragarmendes;12553380 
Also, not all mice are overclockable. Some just respond at 125Hz no matter what you set it to with hidusbf.

Some mouse cant provide high polling rate even if they reporting that they do. You can see fake polling rate on specail graphs like I (and you) did above or if you analyze report rates.
post #169 of 1564
ROCCAT Kova [+]

I have tested it at 125Hz, 250Hz (at 500Hz and 1000Hz video) I can say that is worse at 250 and 125 (Hz). SrollBug amazing, and still not releasing any new firmware.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8241/img3797v.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2941/sgddfg.png

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post #170 of 1564
Hey OCN,

I have tried to compile information as to how examine various mouse issues using Paint and/or some mouse count logger as described by outerspace.
Feel free to contribute and discuss.
Here is what I found (for some reason I was too lazy to capitalize, bear with me wink.gif ):

PAINT
prediction/angle snapping: draw straight lines (horizontal/vertical) at high speed. see if they are perfect or real. try to find maximum prediction free speed.

interpolation: draw straight lines (horizontal/vertical) at medium-high speed. see if small steps are done as one pixel.

jitter: draw diagonals at low-mid speed. see if there are steps.

malfunction rate: (might want to lower windows sens) move horizontally at mid-maximum speed. see if cursor follows or jumps. try to find maximum speed w/o abnormal behaviour.

acceleration: (might want to lower windows sens) move mouse an exact distance at an exact and constant angle - once at low, once at high speed. see if cursor moves the same distance. try to find maximum speed w/o acceleration.

tracking precision: specify mouse reference point. move mouse away, draw circles, return to reference point. keep the angle of the mouse as steady as possible (avoid turning the mouse). see if the cursor returns to the same spot. try different speeds.

LOD: put CDs between mouse and surface left and right of the sensor. determine number of stacked CDs needed to stop tracking (1CD ~1.2mm).

z axis tracking: lift and return mouse without moving it. see if cursor stays reasonably in one place.

COUNTS PLOT
prediction/angle snapping: unnaturally constant count rates (vertical line: x=0; horizontal line: y=0).

interpolation: count rate > 1 on non-moving axis (vertical line: x-axis; horizontal line: y-axis)

jitter: count rates > 1 at low speeds?

malfunction rate: quick swipes/flicks will show as huge bumps/hills in the count rate. when malfunction rate is hit, the count rate _usually_ drops to zero somewhere on the ascending slope).

acceleration: if you move solely on one axis, you can sum up the counts of both runs and see as to how they coincide or differ.

tracking precision: convert all x and y counts so that they inculde their absolute (turn minus to plus). then calculate the distance for each sample using: d = sqrt( x^2 + y^2 ). if you sum up all distances, you will get the travelled distance. now if you sum up all the original x counts and y counts seperately (without taking the absolute) and then calculate d_error = sqrt(sum_x^2 + sum_y^2), you should get a smaller value (ideally zero). 2nd_value/1st_value*100 should give you the difference in percent.

smoothness: move mouse at constant speed (draw circles!). convert all x and y counts so that they inculde their absolute (turn minus to plus). then calculate the distance for each sample using: d = sqrt( x^2 + y^2 ). the d rate (distance travelled per time aka speed) should be constant.

edit: Let me know if this should rather be a separate thread.
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