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Gaming Mouse Sensor List - Page 32

post #311 of 1566
Alright Skylit, no problems.

outerspace, I'm sending the .log files instead (MouseCnv.exe won't let me generate .bin for big .log files).

CS1.6 and SC2 was ploted for the intervals [39.564e4, 39.6e4] and [2.6278e5, 2.6315e5] respectively.
post #312 of 1566
That's some pretty amazing insights, F u r u y á!

1. It's a "Razer's" 3G sensor, though firmware is a unknown factor.
2. They show how easily (@900mm/s) even 16bit interfaces* meet their limits @500Hz exhibiting clipping as a consequence.
3. They show 1000Hz (at least on this sensor/firmware) tends to be more prone to jitter/regular skipping/inaccuracy in the milisecond range (500Hz must be time-averaging them out).
4. Nice graphs

*AFAIK mice nowadays have a 16bit interface, at least mouse-to-PC wise (USB) which fits the calculation here:
log(897/25.4*1600)/log(2) = 15.786 (a bit weird since having two directions would need another bit ^^)
However, Bullveyr has mentioned before that most sensors employ an 8bit-interface, I guess mouse-to-firmware that is. I don't know the details but common sense suggests that the sensor then needs to be polled by the firmware/MCU with at least twice the USB polling rate, right? Or is it just polling at the specified frame rate? Any insights on that are welcome

A script is great as well! That kinda motivates me to publish my Octave script
I am glad that F u r u y á! didn't let himself get scared away. After all, misunderstandings are bound to happen when our common base, the Enlish language, is not everbody's first (not mine either ).

The logger method is easy and available but it has to be kept in mind (as outerspace himself mentioned) that it only reports what the mouse/sensor "sees" which is only indirectly correlated to reality i.e. physical movements.
So despite their can't-be-easily-tried-at-home-nature, the ESR results and the like should be expected to be more accurate as to the mice's ability to digitalize physical movement but at the same time they give less detailed insight on the implementation (e.g. polling rate fluctuations or similar).
I just hope and think that the results of both, the "physical" and the "digital" approach, deliver close enough results that distinction via comments to the cells of Skylit's sheet are sufficient
post #313 of 1566
Something else...
http://ap.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-imperator/
http://ap.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-mamba/
Just got them in the email. How come I haven't heard a word about them before?
Intuitively, dual sensors sounds like epic win, however, it has been tried in the past without particular success...
Any opinions/expectations about it?

Edit:
http://www.overclock.net/mice/103704...al-sensor.html
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...or-system.html
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-ne...cal-lazer.html
All pretty fresh
Edited by Kragarmendes - 6/8/11 at 3:18pm
post #314 of 1566
Thanks. It's actually not good at 500 Hz... At least for me.

Did you try test Abyssus without driver?
post #315 of 1566
Kragarmendes, I suspect that early negaccel at 500 Hz is driver fault.
Edited by outerspace - 6/8/11 at 2:42pm
post #316 of 1566
I kinda felt, I was going wrong somewhere, thanks for pointing that out
I forgot the 500Hz in the equation:
log(897/25.4*1600/500)/log(2) = 6.820!!
Notice something? Correct, remember 1bit has to be added to consider both directions which has us end up with ~8bit and an embarassing joke by razer to put such an interface (or driver/firmware implementation) in a modern gaming mouse, even if it's the entry level model. In this case I would rather have a Zowie Mico it seems.
Maybe I am going wrong again but it kinda makes sense this time, doesn't it?
post #317 of 1566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kragarmendes View Post
*AFAIK mice nowadays have a 16bit interface, at least mouse-to-PC wise (USB) which fits the calculation here:
log(897/25.4*1600)/log(2) = 15.786 (a bit weird since having two directions would need another bit ^^)
However, Bullveyr has mentioned before that most sensors employ an 8bit-interface, I guess mouse-to-firmware that is. I don't know the details but common sense suggests that the sensor then needs to be polled by the firmware/MCU with at least twice the USB polling rate, right? Or is it just polling at the specified frame rate? Any insights on that are welcome
1. Max value for 8 bit buffer is 11111111 (binary) = 255 (decimal).
2. 255/2 = 127 for one dirction. Biffer is divided between two directions (axis): X and Y.
3. Negaccel speed for mouse depend on buffer is MAX.BUFFER.VALUE*POLLING.RATE/DPI (inches/s). For 400 dpi and 125 Hz is 127*125/400 = 39,6875 inches/s = 1 m/s (known number ). For 1600 dpi and 500 Hz is also 1 m/s.
4. Max value for 16 bit buffer is 65535/2 = 32767 in one direction. It's far enough for all possible speeds and mouse resolutions. For 125 Hz and 5000 dpi (worst situation) negaccel speed is 819,175 inches/s = 20 m/s

I'm shure that Abyssus have 16 bit buffer and early negaccel speed at 500 Hz is just driver fault.
Edited by outerspace - 6/8/11 at 3:33pm
post #318 of 1566
Quote:
Originally Posted by outerspace View Post
I'm shure that Abyssus have 16 bit buffer and early negaccel speed at 500 Hz is just driver fault.
How can you be sure when you have just about proved the opposite?
No seriously, I am interested in any information that would hint towards that
post #319 of 1566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kragarmendes View Post
How can you be sure when you have just about proved the opposite?
No seriously, I am interested in any information that would hint towards that
If it's 8 bit buffer problen then speed must be 1008 mm/s but not 897 mm/s as we can see at F u r u y á graph.

Also look at Abyssus specs:

Quote:
16-bit ultra-wide data path.

Edited by outerspace - 6/8/11 at 3:54pm
post #320 of 1566
Ever had a x52 CD-drive that really did x52?

Edit: Ok, you win Either way we agree they messed something up they shouldn't have.
Edited by Kragarmendes - 6/8/11 at 4:00pm
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