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SSD vs HDD - Page 3

post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post
Youd ont see 5-8 year warranties on a lot of things, like motherboard and processors, and hardrives... They dont know if you are going to fold 24/7 and kill your hardware in 1 year, or wether you are going to use your SSD as a data recorder 24/7. But the average user an ssd should last 10 years i would think.

And isn't SLC more durable than MLC?

I looked at MLC memoright, stated data storage time and faliure rate: http://www.memoright.com/webe/html/p...e=1&p=1&num=17
No one knows for sure how long SSDs will last. IMFT only completed a process shrink 8 months ago. Rumors are they had problems getting yields of quality NAND up (and this is why the Intel G3 was delayed). How does IMFT know how long this new NAND will last? They do run massive tests, model predictions, ect but these are just well-educated guesses.



Look at Memoright customers.... military, embedded, enterprise, industrial, marine, aerospace. Odds are they use higher binned NAND.
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post #22 of 43
well then why wouldn't they use SLC instead of MLC? IDK if any piece of hardware lasts me 5 years that would be enough, b/c by then i need to upgrade. Plus they put all that extra space aside of good NAND reserved for bad sectors.
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post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Okay, I'm a bit confused.

What I know is that SSD can't fail due to head crashes, are much faster in terms of latency, but is much more expensive.

So, does that mean

SSD > 15k RPM HDD?

Also, what is latency and what exactly are the numbers?
Yes, SSDs are much faster and more vibration resistant then 15k RPM drives
Latency is how long it takes the drive to start providing data
In an HDD this means how long it takes to process the command, then start moving the head to the correct track on the spinning platter, then wait for the platter to spin to the correct spot then energise the head and read the data then the data needs to exit the drive and go through the SATA cable to the HBA.

For an SSD, the latency involves the drive processing the command, and the NAND controller looking up which NAND block the data was stored in, then energising the correct block and reading it's contents...

HDD: 5 to 20ms (15k RPM drives closer to the 5 side)
SSD: 0.08 to 0.3ms

so you can see the SSD is going to be MUCH faster for smaller files or random access where all the data is not contained in one easy to seek block of data.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
WOAH.

WOAH.

WOAH.

How long (on average) does an SSD last anyway?
No one can say...

I don't think anyone has an SSD that died of "old age" yet... some will have units that have failed electronically and have been replaced under warranty, some will have units that have run out of write cycles since they've punished them... but I don't think anyone has one that was used normally and died of old age.

That won't stop some from estimating based on other products, or physics or accelerated ageing tests etc...
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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
SSDs can do up 170MB/s random writes while a HDD can do less than 5MB/s.
It's important that you specify the size of the writes, as a lot of HDDs can pull off 512K random writes at around 70MB/sec.

This is also why HDDs feel faster than low capacity SSDs when installing programs. (tons of sequential writes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
No, defragging never kills a HDD. Defrag just waste write cycles unnecessarily.
He said SSD - not HDD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
I just said....MTBF is NOT life expectency!



www.apcmedia.com/salestools/VAVR-5WGTSB_R0_EN.pdf

Quote:
There are 500,000 25-year-old humans in the sample population.
Over the course of a year, data is collected on failures (deaths) for this population.
The operational life of the population is 500,000 x 1 year = 500,000 people years.
Throughout the year, 625 people failed (died).
The failure rate is 625 failures / 500,000 people years = 0.125% / year.
The MTBF is the inverse of failure rate or 1 / 0.00125 = 800 years.
So, even though 25-year-old humans have high MTBF values, their life expectancy (service life) is much shorter and does not correlate.
I'd rep you if it were possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post
But the average user an ssd should last 10 years i would think.
Yeah right. Average users kill SSDs faster. I know a few that have gone out of their way to find programs to defrag their SSDs, despite me explaining very clearly over and over that they should not defragment it.

And defrag runs fast, so why not run it every single day?

Us techs/gamers kill our SSDs half as fast, despite using our computers daily for a multitude of tasks. Proper tweaking and awareness of what the SSD is play a big role in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreadedGMan View Post
I don't think anyone has an SSD that died of "old age" yet... some will have units that have failed electronically and have been replaced under warranty, some will have units that have run out of write cycles since they've punished them... but I don't think anyone has one that was used normally and died of old age.
Aren't these the same thing?

If you use up all the spare blocks, and your SSD becomes read-only... I think it's effectively dead? You've exhausted the NAND!
     
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post #25 of 43
Well, so far i've written nearly 1.6Tb to my SSD, and its health is still at 82%

These were my stats back in June, http://www.overclock.net/9838231-post29.html
and this is right now.


I've had the drive for a year and a half now.

At this rate, I expect it to last at least another 7 years. Longer than the life of the machine.
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post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by weidass View Post
Well, so far i've written nearly 1.6Tb to my SSD, and its health is still at 82%
Yeah, but look at what an average person can do since February 2010.

http://www.overclock.net/11052548-post104.html



Also keep in mind that larger SSDs tend to have a lot more spare blocks, and thus should last longer.
     
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post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
Yeah, but look at what an average person can do since February 2010.

http://www.overclock.net/11052548-post104.html

Also keep in mind that larger SSDs tend to have a lot more spare blocks, and thus should last longer.
I'll also bet yours is pretty much full. Mine Hasn't been over 40% full. Kinda wish I'd got the 120Gb version, would have saved a bucket load of cash.

In terms of usage, you have written roughly 8.2x your capacity, whereas mine only comes to 6.6x. It's not so much that you use it more, just as you say, yours has less spare. It's kinda catch 22. Smaller SSD is cheaper but because it's smaller it wears out faster.
Still though, I doubt it'll die before you upgrade


Edit : although interestingly, your read and write values are very similar... I'd have expected less than 150Gb of writes. Have you moved the temp folders and pagefile across to a regular HDD? If not, I can show you how.
Edited by weidass - 10/28/10 at 9:25pm
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post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
Aren't these the same thing?

If you use up all the spare blocks, and your SSD becomes read-only... I think it's effectively dead? You've exhausted the NAND!
That's one of the ways they die.

NAND also "loses it's charge" after 10 years or so... supposedly

but yeah sort of...
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post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by weidass View Post
Well, so far i've written nearly 1.6Tb to my SSD, and its health is still at 82%

These were my stats back in June, http://www.overclock.net/9838231-post29.html
and this is right now.


I've had the drive for a year and a half now.

At this rate, I expect it to last at least another 7 years. Longer than the life of the machine.
You can't make that estimation since you do not have enough data points. Your prediction is based on the assumption of linear model of life and usage. Odds are the life of NAND is more like a bathtub curve. A bunch fail at the begin, everything is relatively ok for years, and then a whole bunch of failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreadedGMan View Post
That's one of the ways they die.

NAND also "loses it's charge" after 10 years or so... supposedly

but yeah sort of...
NAND do lose their charge after about 10 years.... if they aren't powered! There is a tiny amount of voltage leakage which means bit flips after a few years in storage.
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post #30 of 43
I had a thread like this. Isn't the only 15k hdd the velociraptor? Anyways, SSD eats any HDD.
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