[Y] $1.5 million fine for downloading 24 songs - Page 11  

I wish the entire music industry would fail. I really do..

Another thing, I find the entire logic behind this stupid as well. Ok, so she down loads some illegal songs and then later millions of people down load those illegal songs off of her. How and why should she be responsible for anything more then what she down loaded for herself? Why would the millions of others who down loaded off of her not be responsible for themself?

Yet you can't say that. You're just accounting for everything the company lost. Woohoo, what's to stop her doing it again? You can't just fine someone for the money lost, because what's to stop them doing it again? If she only had to pay for the songs, boohoo? She'd be like every American who buys their music. That's not how it works. There has to be some consequence.

Also, I understand that stealing and copyright infringement are different, but yet the concept is the same. You got a $10 product, and someone didn't get paid for it, whether it be the recording company or the retail store.

And do you understand how P2P sharing works? There isn't just one person uploading to one person, it's a bunch of people uploading, so there isn't a "confirmed upload" number, because technically, she didn't upload one full file anywhere, just a bunch of bits. Now trying to figure out how much data she truely sent out and then comparing it to the songs would be much too difficult.

Now I understand that retail stores actually lose money, but if you steal a CD from the store, the store lost a few dollars, $7 we'll say. Now let's say that they did count the amount of data she uploaded and it came out to $7. Why should the fines be anything different?

Lastly, you have to factor in the 'convenience fee'. Think about how difficult it is to steal a CD from the store with all the new technology trying to prevent it. Now think about how easy it is to go to a torrent site and download some music. Because it's easier they have to do more to discourage it, and the only thing they can do is raise fines.

And why does this always seem to happen with music? Why not movies or games? All game companies do is complain about it killing sales, and my friend got caught downloading movies and they just gave him strike one.

For the same reason they want to hit the people who sell bootleg movies. Hurting the downloaders doesn't do anything, because there are lots more. Hurt the suppliers and there's less supply. Also, they'd have to put all those people on trial, and that would be more money than it's worth. Yes, I understand that everyone who downloads uploads in this scenario, but the idea behind it stands.
Edited by Epona - 11/5/10 at 8:40pm

That is what they are doing in this case. Making her pay $1.5 million doesn't stop her from doing it again. Neither would making her pay all legal fees, and to have to pay $5 per song uploaded. The consequence is having to pay money. Is this a great deterrent? No, but what is the alternative?

Do people still speed after getting a ticket? Yes monetary fines don't work.


It's not the same. If I steal a $12 CD the store just lost $12. However, if I go right now and download a Justin Bieber CD the store / music industry lost nothing. I would never pay a cent for any of that crap.



Exactly! That is also my point. I DO know how P2P works. How can you really prove that she did upload the songs to anyone else? What if she only uploaded 10% of a song in total? How much of a fine should she face? $.10? $1000?

That would be like saying:
"Prosecutor: We think he killed his neighbor . . . . we can't prove it without a doubt but . . . .

Judge: OK sounds good to me . . . life in prison"


Again it's the difference between real loss of profits, and potential loss of profits.


So . . . . realistically fine people who they can prove actually downloaded music. This won't work to discourage many people, but at least it would be fair, logical, and doable. I don't have an issue with realistic fines, but $1.5 million.


I do agree, but again the same issues apply with the technicalities of it.

If they caught your friend stealing a CD do you think that they would just let him walk out of the store with a 1 strike warning? No because there is a difference between copyright infringement and stealing.
Edited by AtomicFrost - 11/5/10 at 8:15pm

They are literally trying her for copyright infringement. Whether this is right or wrong is up for debate, but you have to understand...

She is not being tried for illegal downloading
She is not being tried for piracy
She is not being tried for stealing
She is being tried and sentenced for infringing upon a copyright.

A good analogy to this would be if you were pulled over for going 60 in a 50 speed zone and were fined 1.5 million because everyone speeds but you were the one to get caught.

What is the alternative then? That's all they can do short of publicly executing people.

Except now you got something that they didn't receive anything for. And why would up download Justin Bieber if you think he sucks? If it's not worth buying it's not worth downloading either. All you did there was defend pirates by saying that no one's going to buy his music so it's okay to download it even though I'm never going to listen to it.

Except that analogy doesn't fit because this is something tacked on to the fact that she actually did do something wrong. It's pretty much impossible that she only uploaded a tenth of a song. She was connected to so many peers that it's difficult to say, but during the course of the 30 seconds of downloading, she uploaded a few kb to thousands of users. Let's not forget the initial number was 1700 songs but they only chose to persecute for 24.

I already addressed this point.


No where did I say I was okay with the $1.5 million fine. I was saying she should've settled for the $25k fine because that's the lowest it's going.


I believe there was a misunderstanding. I was curious why all these cases are against people who download music as opposed to people downloading movies. Not the difference between stealing a movie and downloading a movie.
Edited by Epona - 11/5/10 at 8:38pm

So are they claiming she stole because technically she just committed forgery and spread that around.

See that's something that bothers me...how the hell could they track down to her and not figure out all the other people who then leeched from her? I would question their ability/legality of tracking in the first place then.

But, if everyone really wanted to end the music industry (let's be more accurate people, the old record labels) then you would simply need a certain percentage to abstain from buying music. Go to concerts and support the artist directly, but get their music (legally) other ways. Oh how joyous it would be to hear of the RIAA and the studios that waste their money propping it up collapsing. Also, discourage and limit the spread of the artists who also propped up the RIAA. That's a solution. Do it or stop complaining because I get tired of hoping other people will help with fixing this and other problems.

that is such a good analogy, it makes me want to add on. its like speeding a crap load of times and being caught, then raising a fuss when authorities want you to pay full in all those parking tickets and then a lot more for not stopping and refusing to pay those tickets. luckily this is just hypothetical and imaginary so you wouldn't be going to jail for refusing to pay those tickets.

Ruin the life of a 4 little children to make a point?

6 People's lives ruined, so that someone can sleep better at night?

Somebody will pay for this in the end, and I'll bet it's going to be those that sat in judgment (including Judge / Jury / DA) & this organization of doom the RIAA...

If you want to hear something even more F up, listen to this...

Creditors are using the police to put people in jail for not paying off their debt, even though it's illegal to do so by law, they are getting away with it all the time....

Theft of services is one thing, borrowing money with the inability to pay it back is another... Hey if you don't want to lose your money, don't loan it to people, it's your fault if you're that financially ignorant...

Justice is for sale, truly, I wonder how much the Judge / DA & Jury got paid?

I once seen a creditor get a lawyer to suck my friends bank account for $1,000, and he didn't even have $20 bucks in the account, he has direct deposit from his work, he had to go 2 MONTHS without money for food or gas to get to work, so I gave him some money to help him get by.... Wrong? I'd say so..

It's one thing to get justice for criminal activities taken directly against you, it's another to use the courts to suck the very life out of the people... (Treason)

Look at insurance companies and how they conveniently got the states to pass laws entirely in their favor. I'm going to set your insurance at $80-$300 a month (or more) and if you have an accident, well you're going to have to cough up $500-$1,000 before I'll fix anything, you do the math, that's not wrong, that's what I call injustice at it's finest, in fact it's treason what the corporations are doing with the legal system & congress...

Just look at the federal reserve bank, they STEAL money from ALL Americans and they get away with it!
The funny thing is, it's not owned by the Federal Government, it's Not a Bank, and there is no Reserve to speak of, lol... They print money as much as they want (over 10 Trillion this year!) What does that mean to you USA citizens? YOU'RE SCREWED!
Edited by _GTech - 11/5/10 at 8:56pm

Actually I vote for public humiliation because we really need to shame people in this shameless day and age. Like the guy pointed out a person speeding will still speed after getting a ticket. But just imagine the thoughts that would go through their head when they think about doing it and then think about how they'd have some embarrassing punishment made before the public waiting for them. Or better yet, force them to have a car that tops out at 30.

So for this lady why not instead have her walk around wearing a sign that says "I forged/pirated/stole and therefore a criminal" (or insert your own phrasing) for a while and deal with that while still having the reasonable monetary value lost (there is no way it could have been 1.5 Million) recovered.

I'm holding back other things because they probably would boarder on cruel and unusual punishment...maybe that's because I grew up believing that you literally owed the person(s) you stole from. Because of that I avoid stealing because I fear ending up an indentured servant.