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post #11 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed
I'm not really sure that extending video card support to older cards is really all that worthwhile... I run my X800Pro (12 pipes) @ 550/560 with AA @ 2x and even using the oblivion.ini tweaks and lowering in-game graphics settings I still only get an average of about 35FPS outside and 85FPS inside. My averages may sound OK, but the reality is, that whilst I may, sometimes, get 130+FPS inside, I can also, sometimes, get as low as 13FPS outside, or in close combat situations where there are 3 or more combatants.

My X800Pro at stock is about 60% better than my old 9800Pro was and at 550/560, its about 110% (more than twice as good) as my old 9800Pro... If I get an average of 60FPS for the whole game, then it would be reasonable to say, that with a similar system and settings, a 9800Pro would get about 29FPS as a total average. A 9200 isn't even half as good as a 9800Pro, so using a 9200 and this "Oldblivion" software/patch, you might be able to get, with a similar system and settings, somewhere in the region of a total game average 11FPS or so... Even if you o/c a 9200 to its max stable, lower all the in-game Oblivion settings and play at 800x600 resolution with no AA/AF, you can't hope for more than, maybe, 22FPS as a total game average... This will probably mean that you will get a half-decent (maybe 40) FPS number inside some buildings, but outside, even with tweaks, your FPS on a 9200 would be appallingly low and make the game virtually unplayable...

I would guess the older video cards are not supported for a very good reason; they cant handle the game's graphics whilst providing an enjoyable gaming experience. Its a nice idea to open up the game to people with older graphics cards, but in practise its just pointless... At best you can hope for relatively low FPS in-game and even if you can get an average FPS of 30 or so, the game will look so graphically poor, it really wont be worth it. A lot of what Oblvion is all about is tied up in its look and feel, which are almost totally dependant upon a half decent graphics card. Honestly, when I see screen shots of how good Oblivion looks on a X1900XTX, it makes my X800Pro's efforts look shabby - a 9200 would look ridiculous.

The screen-shots supplied by "Oldblivion" are not truly indicative of how the game will run on older cards, as, although they may look OK, they do not show the FPS. There's no point having the graphics look OK, if you have to play the game in jumpy slow motion...

If you want to play Oblivion, but don't have the hardware for it, you'll have to bite-the-bullet and make the upgrade to better hardware. That, or get an xbox 360, which ever is cheaper, or suits your needs best.

Highly-Annoyed

Even of there is a reason for the hardware not being supported such as the above lower end cards it is becaseu they cant handle the graphics and textures aswel as the new card..But this new driver released will tone things down for this game to run pretty decent on an old card.
post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTERPRISE1701
Even of there is a reason for the hardware not being supported such as the above lower end cards it is becaseu they cant handle the graphics and textures aswel as the new card..But this new driver released will tone things down for this game to run pretty decent on an old card.
I appreciate it will tone things down for the older cards, but I just think running the game on unsupported older cards will either produce an unsatisfactory level of FPS, leading to slow and/or jumpy game play, and/or graphics that will not do the game justice.

With my o/c'ed X800Pro, I hardly have the game running with all graphic options turned on and have to sacrifice quite a bit of graphic quality to get acceptably playable FPS levels - A 9200, 9000 or 8500 will produce a gaming result that will either look very bad during actual game play (not necessarily screen shots), produce slow and/or jumpy game play (due to low FPS) or produce a combination of those two results.

Honestly, with my X800Pro, using several .ini tweaks, a relatively high (16%/24%) o/c, only 1024x768 resolution and scaled down in-game graphics options, I still get FPS in the low teens in some circumstances... An 9200, 9000 or 8500, even using older version shaders and drivers optimised for DX8 as well as other older technologies, will simply not be able to produce a result in terms of FPS and graphics quality that will make the £30.00 ($55.00 USD) the game costs worth it.

Really, if you've got an 9200 and are prepared to spend the money required to buy the game, you should be able to buy a better graphics card too...

As said before, I think it’s a nice idea to open the game up to people with older technology in their machines. The likelihood is however, that if you cant afford to upgrade your card past an 8500, you cant afford the price of the game either, so you wont be needing any software/drivers to make it run on your system...

Nice idea, just isn't practical imo.

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post #13 of 42
How is this not practical??

This patch is supposed to make the game run smooth on older cards.
I know many many people who would buy the game without new hardware.
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post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ati_guy
How is this not practical??

This patch is supposed to make the game run smooth on older cards.
I know many many people who would buy the game without new hardware.
It's not practical because, as I've said, if you can't afford to upgrade your 8500 to something better, the likelihood is that you can't afford the £30.00 ($55.00 USD) required for the game. Really, the minimum ATi graphics card the game supports is a 9500 series, which is not an expensive series anymore...

Also, most people want value for money when making a purchase. I believe you wont see value for your £30.00 ($55.00 USD) if you run Oblivion on an 8500, or even a 9200, as the graphics quality and FPS levels will reduce either the aesthetic value of the game, or the playability value of the game, or both, even with software/drivers optimised for these older, unsupported cards. This is yet another impracticality.

In addition, if you are running an 8500 in your system, the likelihood is, that most of your other hardware is old too, which will mean you probably wont be able to play the game anyway. The minimum spec for Oblivion is WinXP, 512MB RAM, 2GHz P4 (or equivalent AMD) and a 128MB graphics card.

The 8500 is (to my knowledge) a 64MB card, which in it's self will mean that the card will be forced to use your system RAM to store graphics data, as the physical graphics memory on the graphics card will be exhausted. This will mean less system memory for the game which will lead to virtual memory use, which will lead to slower load times and jumpy game play, unless your system just happens to have 1GB+ of RAM in it, as well as an 8500, which is unlikely to be the case with the majority of systems... Yet another impracticality...

You have to face the fact that, it is most likely that the vast majority of systems running an 8500, will also be running other, older hardware, that will not meet the minimum spec required to run Oblivion, thus making the "Oldblivion" software/drivers impractical.

I fully support the idea of opening up the game for use with older graphics cards, it's a noble and decent thing to do at no cost to the end user, it's just not practical, or worthwhile, imo... Hopefully I'm wrong.

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post #15 of 42
Thread Starter 
So because someone cant afford to put 300$ on new componement for ONE game he cant afford to pay for 50$? Yah that sure make lot of sense Ô_Ô
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post #16 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleGeorge
So because someone cant afford to put 300$ on new componement for ONE game he cant afford to pay for 50$? Yah that sure make lot of sense Ô_Ô
Hes right... my current rig plays everything but FEAR and Oblivion fine on at least medium settings, and I've already beaten FEAR at my friends house [on his 7900gtx, fx-60 2 gig ocz comp ] so many people, like me, wouldn't upgrade for just one game.
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post #17 of 42
Well I would be suprised to see a gf3 run it mabey a ti, but cards like the gf4 non mx this would work wonders espically since the gf4 ti series I have heard is as good as a x1300.
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post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed
It's not practical because, as I've said, if you can't afford to upgrade your 8500 to something better, the likelihood is that you can't afford the £30.00 ($55.00 USD) required for the game. Really, the minimum ATi graphics card the game supports is a 9500 series, which is not an expensive series anymore...

Also, most people want value for money when making a purchase. I believe you wont see value for your £30.00 ($55.00 USD) if you run Oblivion on an 8500, or even a 9200, as the graphics quality and FPS levels will reduce either the aesthetic value of the game, or the playability value of the game, or both, even with software/drivers optimised for these older, unsupported cards. This is yet another impracticality.

In addition, if you are running an 8500 in your system, the likelihood is, that most of your other hardware is old too, which will mean you probably wont be able to play the game anyway. The minimum spec for Oblivion is WinXP, 512MB RAM, 2GHz P4 (or equivalent AMD) and a 128MB graphics card.

The 8500 is (to my knowledge) a 64MB card, which in it's self will mean that the card will be forced to use your system RAM to store graphics data, as the physical graphics memory on the graphics card will be exhausted. This will mean less system memory for the game which will lead to virtual memory use, which will lead to slower load times and jumpy game play, unless your system just happens to have 1GB+ of RAM in it, as well as an 8500, which is unlikely to be the case with the majority of systems... Yet another impracticality...

You have to face that fact that, it is most likely that the vast majority of systems running an 8500, will also be running other, older hardware, that will not meet the minimum spec required to run Oblivion, thus making the "Oldblivion" software/drivers impractical.

I fully support the idea of opening up the game for use with older graphics cards, it's a noble and decent thing to do at no cost to the end user, it's just not practical, or worthwhile, imo... Hopefully I'm wrong.

Highly-Annoyed
Yes the minimum spec for oblivion.
This is oldoblivion.
None of those specs apply.
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post #19 of 42
I tried it, it doesnt work with a 5XXX series card lol. Basically just because it supports Direct X 9, but does a horrible job. But even with it doing bad I managed to get 15 fps average out of it, with older cards forcing it to a level it can do will get good fps, ive heard people playing it smoothly on GF2 cards even. So its practical, and worthwhile, so yeah.. wrong.

The reason why older cards dont even play Oblivion is because it doesnt have any shader level below 2, and effectively no DX8.1 or lower support, oldblivion simply modifies the shaders to be older shaders that the cards most certainly support.
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post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleGeorge
So because someone cant afford to put 300$ on new componement for ONE game he cant afford to pay for 50$? Yah that sure make lot of sense Ô_Ô
Dude, you appear to have picked up only one point and I think you've taken that one point a little out of proportion. Last time I looked, a 9500 series card did not cost $300 USD... A streight 9550 costs (brand new) about £35.00 ($64.00 USD) $9.00 USD more than the game, not $245.00 USD more...

What, are you saying these people running an 8500 can afford a $55.00 USD game, but not a $64.00 USD graphics card? You can pick up a brand new 9800Pro for £74.00 ($131.00 USD) which is only about 2.5X more than the game costs, not the 5.5x you are suggesting a new (supported) card would cost... Used, a 9800Pro can cost as little as £55.00 ($100.00 USD) not $300.00 USD and a used 9550 can cost even less than the game does...

The bottom line is, that the vast majority of machines still running an 8500 will also be running other hardware that will not meet the minimum spec for Oblivion. Therefore, the "Oldblivion" software/drivers are not going to be much help and will, for the vast majority of people, be impractical.

On the ATi web site, the Radeon 9000Pro is shown to be an AGP 2x/4x card with only 64MB of DDR1 VRAM, 4 Piplelines and a 1 Gpixel/sec fillrate... Compare this to the AGP 8X, X800Pro's 256MB GDDR3 vRAM, 12 Pipelines and 5.7 Gpixel/sec fillrate and you can see that no matter what software is used, the 9000 (let alone the 8500) will simply not be able to provide a satisfyingly enjoyable Oblivion gaming experience, both in terms of graphics and in terms of gameplay.

In certain circumstances, my X800Pro at 550/560 (475/450 stock) will produce FPS in the low teens, even with tweaks and lowered graphics settings... Do you really believe that a few drivers will make an 8500, or even 9200 provide any higher FPS, even with all the graphical eye-candy turned off, or on to its lowest setting?

As I keep reiterating, I am fully supportive of the "Oldblivion" drivers/software as a decent and nobel attempt to bring a very good game to very old hardware and I congratulate the people at "Oldblivion" for doing such a thing. However, from a pragmatic perspective, the drivers will do little (imo) but provide a poor gaming experience for the owners of originally unsupported graphics cards. This may be better than no experience at all, but will not be as good as it would first appear and is not a more practical solution to playing Oblvion than a decent (and relatively inexpensive) upgrade would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ati_guy
Yes the minimum spec for oblivion.
This is oldoblivion.
None of those specs apply.
"Oldblivion is a piece of software which allows graphics cards which are pre DirectX9 to run Elder Scrolls: Oblivion from Bethesda. This means that Oblivion can run on cards such as Geforce 3, Geforce 4, Radeon 9200 and so on." - quote from www.oldblivion.com

You seem to be suggesting that "Oldblivion" is, what, a different game to Oblivion..? It's just a plugin/addon/patch etc that specifically relates to graphics card usage. All the other Oblivion min spec will still apply, the only hardware difference will be that some unsupported cards will now be supported... You'll still need a min of 512MB RAM, 2GHz P4 etc...

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