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What Good About DVI - Page 2

post #11 of 20
i'm almost positive that the monitors are the difference Melcar
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post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472
Digital is not superior to analog. Digital uses "sampling", which loses a lot of the original information in the conversion. Analog has basically infinite sampling points and is the reasoning that a record player sounds better than a cd or dvd player. There are benefits to both, but digital is most definitely not superior to analog. Your individual video card/monitor setup will vary as to which looks better to you, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with an analog signal.
Im sorry but i am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Graphics cards calculations are done in a digital fashion then submitted to a digital to analogue converter (DAC) before being fed down the VGA line to a VGA monitor. If you miss out the DAC totally and feed a digital feed down a DVI-D connection you are missing out a potential degradation step.

You use the analogy that record players sound better than CD players i have to disagree on this as well.

Records gives a more warmer feeling sound using an analogue signal which is fed to a analogue amplifier and analogue speakers. With a CD player you are using a digital source being fed into an analogue amplifier so you have another DAC involved. So you might say that the LP Player gives the greater quality but the CD player gives the better source so quality is better.

So from a PC perspective VGA will never perform as well as DVI-D.

Sorry if im rocking the boat but felt my point needed putting across (hope i explained myself properly )
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post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by willhoy
i'm almost positive that the monitors are the difference Melcar
Yes, the Acer (17") has better stats than the old 15" LCD, but keep in mind that I ran the 17" on a non-native resolution. Usually those look like crap but in this case it looked better.
I made another comparison with another 17" LCD (analog) with the same stats as mine. You can't convince me to go back to analog now. Thers is a difference, not a big one, but there is.
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post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom
Graphics cards calculations are done in a digital fashion then submitted to a digital to analogue converter (DAC) before being fed down the VGA line to a VGA monitor. If you miss out the DAC totally and feed a digital feed down a DVI-D connection you are missing out a potential degradation step.
I don't know what your background is, but in order to discuss this, it's going to have to get more technical. Keeping a signal in the digital format does not "miss out" on a potential degradation step at all. Are you familiar with how a signal is passed in the digital domain? Timing errors, also known as jitter are experienced and have a significant impact on the passed signal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom
You use the analogy that record players sound better than CD players i have to disagree on this as well.

Records gives a more warmer feeling sound using an analogue signal which is fed to a analogue amplifier and analogue speakers. With a CD player you are using a digital source being fed into an analogue amplifier so you have another DAC involved. So you might say that the LP Player gives the greater quality but the CD player gives the better source so quality is better.So from a PC perspective VGA will never perform as well as DVI-D.
It's readily accepted in the audiophile realm that an analog record sounds better than the best cd player in the world. (Linn Sondek CD12) Again, you're assuming that by keeping a signal in the digital domain, that degradation is lesser than a DAC and that's not always accurate. Each system device will have it's own internal clock and these are rarely synced together. (rare exception being my own Karik/Numerik transport/dac combo) With that being said, you're also making the erroneous assumption that amplification can be done in the digital domain. All signals are converted to analog before amplification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom
Sorry if im rocking the boat but felt my point needed putting across (hope i explained myself properly )
A discussion is always welcomed
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post #15 of 20
Thankyou for your comments

I too are a PC/Audiophile i understand what you are saying, and yes the amplification will always be performed in an analogue signal hence the DAC being located in the CD player and then being outputted via analogue Phono outputs.

Does the inherrant noise generated by the sylus not impare the signal compared to the gitter/wobble exhibited on a CD player which is much smaller?

Why is that a DVI-D output to a digital display look sharper clearer and brighter than the same feed from the VGA to a digital display? enlighten me

Ow i do like a good discussion about stuff.
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post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom
I too are a PC/Audiophile i understand what you are saying, and yes the amplification will always be performed in an analogue signal hence the DAC being located in the CD player and then being outputted via analogue Phono outputs.
Not always Transports, as you know, are very common now that digital preamps have come up to par.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom
Does the inherrant noise generated by the sylus not impare the signal compared to the gitter/wobble exhibited on a CD player which is much smaller?
Every component in the signal path causes degradation, analog or digital. I can't tell you whether a stylus or jitter has a larger impact on the signal because it will come down to the actual pieces involved. Overall, I'd have to give the edge to a stylus. Also, keep in mind that most original recordings are stored in analog format, so all cds are added conversions to the original.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjrTom
Why is that a DVI-D output to a digital display look sharper clearer and brighter than the same feed from the VGA to a digital display? enlighten me
Again, like I said earlier, it will come down to the actual cable/monitor/graphics card used. Results will vary, but digital is NOT superior to analog

ps For those not familiar with electronics and can't understand how a digital signal isn't passed perfectly, here's an easy way to experience it for yourself. In a high end audio store (often called "boutique"), ask to hear 2 cd transports playing the same song and using all other equipment the same. You WILL hear a difference and all the cd transport is doing is passing along a digital signal. It's not doing a single D/A or A/D conversion if the signal is fed to an external DAC. The results will shock you
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post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt_shark
if you would please edit your question as the grammar is somewhat not interpretable. From what i gathered i can only offer you this:
DVI: Digital Video Input entirely a better connection but it is the preffered connection of Apple Pc's (shudder...i feel so dirty now). Monitors were released with DVI so they could be compatible with Apple Pc's and later to provide a somewhat improved monitor connection on ordinary Pc's.
Graphics cards were also released with DVI for one simple fact, its digital. VGA (the usual blue monitor port) is analog. To put simply, digital is known in society to be of a higher level than analog as it is not linear and provides a clearer faster connection with the usual perks and bonuses that analog could not allow.

A cheap graphics card with DVI would probably be the 6600GT or maybe the 6800GS if you want good gaming performance as well...to date every benq LCD monitor has both VGA and DVI and you can connect them to two towers and switch between towers by the use of one button plus benq monitors are of very high standard....

hope i've helped, post anything else you would like help with

don't knock my 6600.....it does very well thank you....
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post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472
Again, like I said earlier, it will come down to the actual cable/monitor/graphics card used. Results will vary, but digital is NOT superior to analog
I still don't understand how you can say this when all things the same, the DVI still looks much better to the naked eye. I am a very discerning avid photographer so I deal in color and brightness ALOT and in looking at same for same gpu, cables, monitors, etc I can see that a DVI source looks easily 100 times better then the output from a standard vga.

I am not arguing the technical side of it because a) I dont have that much knowledge and b) what I was able to research you are 100% correct for the theory. My only issue is the actual visualizations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472
ps For those not familiar with electronics and can't understand how a digital signal isn't passed perfectly, here's an easy way to experience it for yourself. In a high end audio store (often called "boutique"), ask to hear 2 cd transports playing the same song and using all other equipment the same. You WILL hear a difference and all the cd transport is doing is passing along a digital signal. It's not doing a single D/A or A/D conversion if the signal is fed to an external DAC. The results will shock you
I understand this with sound and the fact that there is a very noticible difference with audio moreso then when you have a trained ear. I do not see how that can be applied to a visual signal though.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_beedy
I still don't understand how you can say this when all things the same, the DVI still looks much better to the naked eye.
How many setups have you compared?
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post #20 of 20
I can easily tell the difference in quality when i have both monitors going. My lcd is crisp and clear but my CRT is more blurry. Also not having to mess with the settings is great.
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