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50% Load Myth - Page 8

post #71 of 83
I love PSU debates. I'm still using a 4 years-old psu and im pretty sure If i ever upgrade from 6850 to, say, R280x, i'll still use it biggrin.gif


Enermax Dude !

Image is from anandtech's review of the unit
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Intel Evilnow
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post #72 of 83
I buying an OCZ 750W PSU for my AMD 6000+ and an 8600 GTS was idiotic? I agree. At least it had blue lights to match my Antec 900. X5Wy5q
post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangyuangan View Post

I buying an OCZ 750W PSU for my AMD 6000+ and an 8600 GTS was idiotic? I agree. At least it had blue lights to match my Antec 900. X5Wy5q

Can't see the pic.

There was a time when the multi rail psus were new and weak, people were flooding the Sapphire forums back then. Early 2900xt, late x1950xtx days.
"OMG, my comp restarts when I launch a game"
"***, it's BSOD with all the games!"


Granted, people knew little about PSUs and tried to run 2900xts with 4x10a multirail psus (that card needed a direct line from a nuclear plant), but most of the time it was exaggerated. That time PSU debates peaked. Multi vs Single.

If you are not buying an overkill PSU every build, noone can say anything to your OCZ 750 biggrin.gif
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post #74 of 83
what happens if the sole purpose of the pc is rendering or gaming? in other words, 99% of the time the components are drawing the max power. wouldn't this make a bigger psu more efficient? i think you should've mentioned this in the op. there is simply no way that an equal amount of time is divided between the range of voltages to use the average voltage for calculations. plus, if ur about to drop a high end, efficient psu, it is more than likely a high end gaming pc. and it will be at max load most of the time playing games.
post #75 of 83
There is no game that can push max load 24/7 which is what a PSU should be rated for.
    
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post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by fengshui View Post

what happens if the sole purpose of the pc is rendering or gaming? in other words, 99% of the time the components are drawing the max power. wouldn't this make a bigger psu more efficient? i think you should've mentioned this in the op. there is simply no way that an equal amount of time is divided between the range of voltages to use the average voltage for calculations. plus, if ur about to drop a high end, efficient psu, it is more than likely a high end gaming pc. and it will be at max load most of the time playing games.

 

He did mention it. You want your average power draw to be at roughly 50% of the PSU's capacity. This means that if your computer is pulling let's say 500W from the PSU 24/7 (as discovered by multiplying a wall meter reading by your PSU's advertised efficiency, like .80 or .85 or .90 or .95), then your minimum PSU recommendation would be at around 850W (continuous, not peak) in order to maximize your average efficiency. So, all you really need to know is approximately how much power your computer is pulling from the PSU on average in order to size the new PSU for maximum average efficiency.

 

So, to take this in the other direction, let's say that your computer only pulls 500W for a couple of hours per day and the rest of the day it's pulling anywhere between 50 to 125W from the PSU. Well, this would mean that you would want to get a 550 to 650W PSU (continuous, not peak). Anything bigger is just a waste of money unless you have definite plans to make upgrades that would increase your power draw quite a bit.

 

So, what do you do if your computer is pulling 500W for about 12 hours per day? Get a good 650W PSU.

 

As you can see, it's all about your average power draw. Too many people say, "Oh, my computer pulls 500W when I'm gaming, therefore I should get a 1000W PSU in order to maximize my efficiency because everyone says that you want your power draw to be at about 50% of the PSU's capacity". This would only be true of that 500W power draw is a 24/7 power draw and also planned to be like that for several months or even a few years. If that person is only gaming for a few hours per day, then they will maximize their average efficiency by using a good 550-650W PSU.

 

Now, the next question is: what about leaving room for future upgrades? That requires a lot of questions and answers, and so I can't address that in this post. Some future upgrades wouldn't require more power at all (some would even reduce the power consumption), others would require a LOT more. Some future upgrades are just pipe dreams, wishful thinking. Some people even mention future upgrades just so they can trick you into recommending a much bigger PSU than they really need so that they can get that 1000W+ PSU when they know that they'll never need anything more than 550-650W (they know that you'll never recommend a 1000W+ PSU unless they make you think they'll need it - some people are really that stubborn). You have to be part expert, part detective and part psychologist or mind reader.

 

Anyway, so yeah: go by your average power draw and put that average power draw at roughly 50-75% of the PSU's capacity in order to maximize your average efficiency. This will also result in getting the highest quality power output from your PSU as possible. If the power draw is too small on the PSU, like 50-125W from a 1000W PSU, then you're not only killing your efficiency, but you're also getting "dirtier" power! This can result in all kinds of weird problems and it can also shorten the life of both your computer and your PSU. Therefore, when it comes to PSUs, bigger is not always better. I see way too many people these days with like a 1200W+ PSU powering a system that has a mainstream CPU that's overclocked on air with just one video card! I saw someone yesterday with exactly that kind of a rig being powered by the 1500W SuperNOVA. This kind of a setup is becoming way too common.

 

To get back on topic once again just to close this post: always go by what your average power draw is, not what your peak is. After all, what if that peak is only happening for 2-3 hours per day and the rest of the time your computer is only pulling 50-125W from the PSU? This gets worse if you leave your computer on 24/7 because guess how much power it's pulling when it's just sitting there doing nothing. Yep: 50-125W.


Edited by TwoCables - 2/17/14 at 9:12am
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post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis View Post

Hey can we get the "your eyes cant see over xx FPS" myth stopped as well while we are at it?
It's not a myth. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate for details.

For those of you who won't click, the eye can analyze about 10-12 images (frames) per second. Films are still encoded at 24fps and then artificially increased to 48 to 72fps to assist in fluidity between frames (that's how a lot of "120"Hz TVs work, by strobing twice per frame at 60Hz).

Anyway, technical information aside, you will notice very little difference in frame rates between 12 and 24, and then even less between 24 and 48, etc, on a logarithmic scale (from 1 to infinity fps).

If a game can push a minimum of 25fps at a setting, that is where I set my graphics settings. Anything higher is just "padding" to make sure that system hiccups don't bring it down to unplayable.

NOW, I don't intend to hijack this thread. I love the writeup and agree 100% with what the OP said. I've had to argue with customers when making custom builds that the 1200Watt PSU that I offer is only for people with RAIDs and dual GPU setups. Some I just have to give in to or they'll go somewhere that will take their money.
post #78 of 83
There have been various blind test where people have been able to distinguish various FPS ranging from 30-120. If I remember correctly Linus even did one and was able to get most of them if not all of them correct. People are different however because I also remember Linus performing the same test on a friend who was barely able to notice the difference and barely got any correct
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post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElQueue View Post

NOW, I don't intend to hijack this thread.

Well, if you weren't wrong, I would have let it slide. tongue.gif I will allow you to argue that we do see in frames, but each one only lasts a single Planck time if this is true.

I'm not sure how anybody can perceive 12FPS as motion. It just isn't. That's practically a slideshow. Movies? 24FPS was considered the bare minimum for motion to be perceived, so naturally, since film was expensive, that framerate was chosen. It became a standard. For some reason, that became a myth. This myth essentially says that a cost-cutting measure was used, not to save money, but rather because our feeble brains can't process information quickly enough. Movies do have a bit of an edge over games. Instead of rendering a single split-second in time, they take a picture over a (very short) duration, and therefore there is some motion blur inherent to the medium.

So how many frames can the eye see in a second? Air Force test pilots fortunately have answered that for us. An image of a plane was flashed for a fraction of a second. The pilots could identify it, even it were flashed for just 1/220 of a second, or essentially 220FPS. That's nearly four times the refresh rate of your monitor. Even if we ignore several academic studies done on framerate vs game performance, it isn't that hard to test. Check this out. Don't tell me you can't see a difference.

I was getting 12FPS in Planetside 2 last night. Looked like a slideshow. Was getting 24FPS earlier today. Looked tolerable, but definitely not optimal. Remembered I left BOINC on and disabled it for 60+FPS. Looked good. Yet my system was rendering more frames than that. If I had a 120Hz monitor, I'm sure I could see the difference. Having V-sync on and seeing framerates drop from 60FPS to something as close as 55FPS is almost unplayable. Based on how it works, there are 5 frames each second lasting twice the normal 16.66...ms duration. It looks horrible.
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post #80 of 83
I guess I'm one of those people Sunreeper talks about. I put 24fps up next to 60fps of the moons and the only way I could tell a difference was because one had motion blur on. frown.gif
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