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post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter2.2
not true if i was to put dreamweaver into a uk job searh engine it would come up with atleast 50 jobs that require the knowledge of dreamweaver
You need to re-read my post. Someone who wants a job programming for the web does need to know HTML. There are plenty of places that use dreamweaver (and as far as wysiwyg editors go, it is a great one). I was commenting on your advice that learning HTML isn't required (which IMO is very bad advice).

I have been responsible for hiring quite a few people and I will let you in on a few tips that I use when hiring.
  • I could care less about certs
  • HTML is important for any job that requires web work; and you don't know it unless you can write it in notepad
  • If you can't write a simple app on the spot with out a reference book or google you aren't getting hired
  • knowing just one DB or Programming methodoldgy isn't going to get you very far
  • Expect to take a test of your programming knowledge
  • No one will answer every question correctly
The test I make exceptionally hard to see how the candidates react to being challenged. The repsonse to challenge is often more important than the "answer" you give. Obiviously this is the way that I hire people. You may be able to find another employer that just wants a lackie and doesn't care about skill. Those jobs do exist, but they aren't the nice ones that make you want to start a life in programming.

Which brings another point the hours aren't exactly a party. I can't count the number of 20hr days that I have had, not to mention the weekend work. Pager duty is also fun, getting paged at 3AM to go fix an urgent problem isn't always fun. And if you are an employee forget about overtime, it doesn't exist (at least in the US). Computer professionals are specifically excluded from the list of occupations that require an employer to pay overtime.

I did my grunt work in college and was able to land a semi-senior position right off. I got lucky (just a side note- it was simple HTML editing and my ability to edit in notepad got me the job). Experience is the key, even if it is side-work that you did in your spare time. This is almost a catch-22 because you can't get work without experience and you can't get experience without work. In those cases a cert may help you. I just know for me, and the people that I know certs don't mean anything. Thats why I think hard work and really learning the language is important.

I am rambling, I will stop now. Just make sure you weigh in all of the advice and don't make any choices based on any single peice of advice (including mine). We sometimes here the option we want to hear the most clearly, even though it is the one we should hear.


EDIT: I see you edited your post, sorry I didn't catch that before spouting off.
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post #12 of 24
I'm you are serious about a job as a programmer, a good one that is, then theres some work ahead for you. The first thing you are going to want to do is find an easy laguage to learn, something like VB or QBasic. The work on creating good, efficient, well flowing code. This is what makes a good programer. Someone that knows Logic very well, and can write code in a simple to understand way. Its all about how well written your code is. The better your logical thinking is the better your coding skills will be. You don't want to spend time looking how to code something if your working for someone, they wont want you as soon as they find thins out. Anyone can learn the laguage, what it comes down to is your logic and ability to think clearly and efficiently.

Java is a pretty common laguage. I would start with something easier though like I stated above. Later on if you want to learn some Java. Look at links in my sig. I plan on having part to out for next week. It will focus on loop, classes, arrays, and then how to efficiently write code.
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post #13 of 24
ok fair enough i kind of misunderstood the post, but did that really validate a - rep????
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post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter2.2
Java is a gd programing language , but if you want a web job, you dont need to learn html , you could just learn a program called macromedia dreamweaver, cery good program and also learn photoshop, there are tons of gd tutorials on www.good-tutorials.com for photshop
Yes, I felt that it was very bad advice. If you disagree you may send a PM to admin or Xavier1421.
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post #15 of 24
Learn C++ It's a very popular language when companies are hiring.

I'm actually thinking about where to go with computers in the future...
I might decide to get into animation....but programming is also an option. the University here is alright, and Lawrence Tech is right across the bridge, and supposedly has an awesome program.

Either way, you can't go wrong with computers as long as you have a good knowledge, and a solid education to back you up. Just go where your enjoyment takes you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter2.2
ok fair enough i kind of misunderstood the post, but did that really validate a - rep????

HAHA...I'm not gonna lie....it wasn't very good advice.
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post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRD
Yes, I felt that it was very bad advice. If you disagree you may send a PM to admin or Xavier1421.
When was the -REP rule bought in for the Directors and Mods alike ? Just wondering. I Heard it was being enforced but there was alot of uncertantity about it.
post #17 of 24
I'm currently studying computer programming ( about two months from grad). We began with some basic logic courses. The next step was spending a LOT of time with good ole C and some object oriented Visual Basic.net. Currently I'm studying C++ and Java.

The most crucial bit of advice I can give is to spend a lot of time on logic; the language takes a back seat and will vary depending on the type of work you wish to do. Writing efficient code is the most important thing regardless of language. If you can write a program in 500 lines that another hopeful can write in 300 it's a safe bet that there's some bloat and loss in your logic. Practice keeping it simple and clean.
    
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post #18 of 24
C++ is very important and so is Java they are 2 different programs that does, in a way, different types of programing. HTML is almost useless because of all the ways you can build websites and stuff with programs instead of actually writing the HTML code. VB is a very easy and quick to learn language and then you might want to go deeper into programing with C++ or java or you can go into the graphics area and do photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, lightwave, whatever.
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post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacKz5o
C++ is very important and so is Java they are 2 different programs that does, in a way, different types of programing. HTML is almost useless because of all the ways you can build websites and stuff with programs instead of actually writing the HTML code. VB is a very easy and quick to learn language and then you might want to go deeper into programing with C++ or java or you can go into the graphics area and do photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, lightwave, whatever.
Again this is horrible advice. I have to handwrite HTML almost everyday. Scripting languages like PHP produce HTML dynamically. However, it isn't always cut-and-dry as to how to produce the HTML. For example there are plenty of cases that required me to list out a large amount of data. I needed to put the data inside tables that could have 1, 2 or 3 columns depending on how much data was structured. If I always simply relied on Dreamweaver I would have been in much worse shape. If you never plan on doing something other than static HTML, you can certainly get by with no real knowledge of HTML. However, this post was in reference to a Programming Job. To consider writing static HTML programming is like calling a secretary a network engineer because they answer a phone.
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post #20 of 24
I gotta go with BFRD on this one...

There are really three parts to this:
- Undertanding the logic
- Understanding a language
- Understanding the tools

Someone who really gets the logic behind building functions, or the theories behind cryptos, etc.. Will be able to apply that to any work they are doing.

If you understand the language, you should be able to use notepad to construct code.

And everyone knows some set of tools to increase productivity.

Someone who can build tight, clean and productive code in C++ will be able to carry that into Java with some training and oversight. Hell, even if they know java really well and c++ not so well - if they are writing up some code on a whiteboard or notepad, I am even fine with "I would need to look it up, but I know there is some InternetQueryInfo something or another that will get me my network state..." rather than having the exact code, that is fine. Nobody has everything memorized. Rather, I will be focusing on their functions, error handling, logic, etc...

Someone who only knows HTML through WYSIWYG editors won't be able to carry that into much of anything else.

ANd knowing more than one tool is always a plus. Or at least boning up on the tool you know a company needs before the interview helps. ("While I am used to using X, I know that you use Y, which I understand the differences to mainly be AA BB and CC. I would need to ramp up." - most can live with that so long as their sample/interview code is tight.)
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