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post #221 of 317
>> of course i have a level 85 healer... I healed/beat kil'jeaden in 2008 and you wanna ask about hard cores... i was all for the way heroics where in beta before they got nerfed. 1% chance of success FTW

WoWScrnShot_110208_202344.jpg

i just realized you might be talking about hard cores being hard because poor group members. the LFD system dosnt give enough time to learn to play as a group well. and youl get poor dps that make a run hellish for healers since they get yelled at for being oom on fights that take entierly too long
Edited by nazarein - 1/5/11 at 2:32am
post #222 of 317
I'm currently writing a unit frames mod for this game. Maybe I'll post a link once finished for any who might be remotely interested smile.gif Lua is quite serious business and I'm having fun.
post #223 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmageddonAsh;11887916 
im curious as to this part, how much does your shield actually shield the person for? in HCs unless you have a MASSIVE amount of mastery (increases shield absorb) it cant be worth using it at all, hell all the mobs in HCs hit for 10k+ damage with over 1,200mastery and in Disc my shields still dont shield more then 10k damage so they are VERY useless to use.

Sure its only 3,500mana but if you shield more people say you have 3 melee thats about 10,500mana just to shield them from damage that will be broken and still hurt them anyway would think that using 2 x Prayer Of Mending would be better would just about use less mana but would heal more then what the shields would shield against AND would heal the whole party

sure you can shield and renew the tank before battle but that alone uses about 7,500mana the shield will be broken on first attack and renew for me anyway does about 2,000healing per a tick maybe throw a Prayer of Mending thats another 3,300mana so already over 11,000mana would have been used just on the tank and even then its not 100% sure its going to keep him alive, then its to the rest who could be taking damage too much for heal so you have to FH which is another 5,800mana each cast

At the moment i just find using Power Word Shield VERY pointless and a mana draining spell with no benefits, sure you have Barrier as well but that has a 2min cool down but atleast they changed it from absorbing 77k damage to reducing all damage by 30% for the duration (10seconds)

Also the reason why you could be doing well is coz you are in guild runs, not everyone is in a guild some people (like me) like doing a few randoms it gives nice XP for one but at the moment unless you get the P E R F E C T group with enough CC people, good healer, good tank and such then it will A L W A Y S be a fail and thats why some people are complaining you shouldnt be F O R C E D to do guild runs in order to take part in dungeons - if they wanted it like that why not just remove the dungeon finder altogether?

Actually mate, the reason I'm doing well is because I know how to play my class. Some of the stuff you have said above is quite simply rubbish.

Let start off with what I have put in bold...

Power Word: Shield is probably your best spell in the entire game... Why? Because it's our mana regen. Yes, shield = Disc Regen. The 3 point talent "Rapture" gives us 2/4/6% of total mana back once a shield is broken, effect cannot occur more than once every 12 seconds. The tooltip is broken and still states 2.5% mana, but go check patch notes from before Christmas, it's 6% now.

What does this mean? Basically this means you need to make the most of your shield by NOT using it until you have under 94% mana, or it's totally wasted. Therefore you don't ever shield the tank, or anyone, before you enter combat. Put a focus on the tank and every time weakened soul runs out, shield him (weakened soul is 15 sec so you know it will proc every time then). NEVER use your shield on anyone else unless it's 110% necessary.

Right, so you understand how shield is our best spell now, moving on...

At the start of the fight stack grace on the tank with pennance (3 ticks = 3 grace) and place a renew on him, if the fight will involve AOE damage then use a POM. You should be using Inner Will and not Inner Fire as the spell power benefit is very poor right now.

If the tank then takes damage you use Greater Heal + Pennance to heal him back up. Keep the renew on, and every 15 seconds, use Shield to get your mana back. You will _never_ and the rock means NEVER be using HEAL or FLASH HEAL, these are totally worthless spells that you might get away with in 25 man, but you can't afford to use in 5 man heroic or 10 man raiding. Take them off your bars.

If you group takes damage, you can spam some prayer of healing, if they're really low, use power infusion on yourself (you should never use power infusion on anyone but yourself anymore) and spam 20% less mana/quicker casting prayer of healing. They will stack a lovely aegis on the group too.

Inner Focus: this is pretty quick our second best spell in the Disc tree, that keeps us going along with Power Word: Shield. You should make these macros:

/cast Inner Focus
/cast Greater Heal
&
/cast Inner Focus
/cast Prayer of Healing

Both of these spells you will be using a lot, and they cost 5.5k mana, they need to be bound to macros! Obviously this means that you will be using the "Train of Thought" talent as it's brilliant for us (5 seconds off Inner Focus every time you Greater Heal).

I'm going to assume you already know that the Attonement builds are completely useless, and so you will never use smite.

As for stats:

Int > Spi/Haste > Mastery > Crit

Mastery is only slightly better than Crit, but until the gear levels go up it's worth getting more Mastery than Crit.

My current stats:
1105 Haste
905 Mastery
362 Crit


Good luck I guess!
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post #224 of 317
'Some of the stuff you have said above is quite simply rubbish.'

I wanted to start my post with what you started yours with, since it applies to this post also.


Right, so you understand how shield is our best spell now, moving on...


Best spell is an exageration, but a required spell ofcourse.


At the start of the fight stack grace on the tank with pennance (3 ticks = 3 grace) and place a renew on him, if the fight will involve AOE damage then use a POM. You should be using Inner Will and not Inner Fire as the spell power benefit is very poor right now.

Use Inner Fire, even with full raiding gear it's still roughly a 7% spellpower increase, much better than a reduced mana cost on instant abilities which Disc Priests don't worry too much about, since our instant abilities are rather low mana costs anyway.

The only time i'd use Renew as Disc is before a pull, allowing you to drink the mana back after, making it effectively a free heal. Should Also use PoM on cooldown on the tank, including before a pull for the reason stated for Renew. Regardless of any AOE in the fight or not.




If the tank then takes damage you use Greater Heal + Pennance to heal him back up. Keep the renew on, and every 15 seconds, use Shield to get your mana back. You will _never_ and the rock means NEVER be using HEAL or FLASH HEAL, these are totally worthless spells that you might get away with in 25 man, but you can't afford to use in 5 man heroic or 10 man raiding. Take them off your bars.


I'd use Penance before a greater heal, useful for when you have borrowed time. (Penance doesn't consume borrowed time, just so you know.)

Both Heal and Flash heal can be valuable healing abilities, they're far from useless, they just require someone who can get their head around using them. Heal if spec'd can allow you to lower the Weakened Soul on the tank, if you only cast Heal once on the tank, it'l allow you to keep rapture on the 12second cooldown on the tank meaning a greater mana return from shields. Rather than loosing 3 seconds of rapture every time.

In a 3 minute fight, you're looking at 3 or 4 extra raptures by doing this, an extra 18% or 24% mana for the fight.

Flash Heal can be useful as an ability to save a life, but far from an ability you're able to spam anymore. Kind of agree that Flash heal has lost a lot of usefuless, but still worthy of a space on your action bars.



If you group takes damage, you can spam some prayer of healing, if they're really low, use power infusion on yourself (you should never use power infusion on anyone but yourself anymore)

Power Infusion is only useful for yourself if you're having problems keeping the group alive,, otherwise, i'd advise still putting it on the best caster dps you have there.



I'm going to assume you already know that the Attonement builds are completely useless, and so you will never use smite.

Hahaha, i've healed whole heroics with Attnement. Won't always get you through an encounter, but can deffinatly help. VERY FAR from completely useless.

P.S Can i get a link to your armory Smithy?
post #225 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithyD86;11922410 
Actually mate, the reason I'm doing well is because I know how to play my class. Some of the stuff you have said above is quite simply rubbish.

Let start off with what I have put in bold...

Power Word: Shield is probably your best spell in the entire game... Why? Because it's our mana regen. Yes, shield = Disc Regen. The 3 point talent "Rapture" gives us 2/4/6% of total mana back once a shield is broken, effect cannot occur more than once every 12 seconds. The tooltip is broken and still states 2.5% mana, but go check patch notes from before Christmas, it's 6% now

Best in the game? no where near it, sure it has a long cool down 7mins with the Glyph but i would say that Lay On Hands is by far the most powerful spell in the game, maybe too the point its over powered

Does broken count as when its timer runs out as well? so it gives back about 1,000mana more then its cost of around 3,500 if you have 75,000 which isnt TOO bad but not exactly amazing either


What does this mean? Basically this means you need to make the most of your shield by NOT using it until you have under 94% mana, or it's totally wasted. Therefore you don't ever shield the tank, or anyone, before you enter combat. Put a focus on the tank and every time weakened soul runs out, shield him (weakened soul is 15 sec so you know it will proc every time then). NEVER use your shield on anyone else unless it's 110% necessary.

Given that the shield absorbs about 10,000 still makes it a bit weak when comparing how much damage enemies do, especially in Heroics when each and every mob (not including little "pest" ones) does a min of 15-20k from the ones i have seen that still 5k less health then they had before why have a shield if it cant even withstand 1 attack?

Right, so you understand how shield is our best spell now, moving on...

At the start of the fight stack grace on the tank with pennance (3 ticks = 3 grace) and place a renew on him, if the fight will involve AOE damage then use a POM. You should be using Inner Will and not Inner Fire as the spell power benefit is very poor right now.

Again, theres a difference between good and best, too me i think that when you compare how much it shields to the damage mobs and bosses does shows that it is underpowered/useless

If the tank then takes damage you use Greater Heal + Pennance to heal him back up. Keep the renew on, and every 15 seconds, use Shield to get your mana back. You will _never_ and the rock means NEVER be using HEAL or FLASH HEAL, these are totally worthless spells that you might get away with in 25 man, but you can't afford to use in 5 man heroic or 10 man raiding. Take them off your bars.

Pennance to me is a great spell, very useful but 7second cool down is a bit of a shame but the last i checked they made it so that you need to use other spells, and if Disc is a 3 spell class glad im not using it at the moment as it sounds boring, why use the MOST expensive and time consuming spell all the time? its been a while but does Pennance cost mana?

If so how much, Greater Heal is like 5,700mana the last i checked, renew is 3,500 same with shield so that is a min of about 12,000spent on the tank alone and you think that shield will give that much back - sure as you get more mana but when you are at about 75,000 - 80,000 its still like about 1,000 maybe 2,000 at most recovered when you count the shield spell cost


If you group takes damage, you can spam some prayer of healing, if they're really low, use power infusion on yourself (you should never use power infusion on anyone but yourself anymore) and spam 20% less mana/quicker casting prayer of healing. They will stack a lovely aegis on the group too.

Inner Focus: this is pretty quick our second best spell in the Disc tree, that keeps us going along with Power Word: Shield. You should make these macros:

From the AoE attacks i have seen that wouldnt be enough, i have seen AoE damage that does 15-20k each for everyone in its range and most of them do several ticks of that so that could be 40-60k damage within seconds

/cast Inner Focus
/cast Greater Heal
&
/cast Inner Focus
/cast Prayer of Healing

Both of these spells you will be using a lot, and they cost 5.5k mana, they need to be bound to macros! Obviously this means that you will be using the "Train of Thought" talent as it's brilliant for us (5 seconds off Inner Focus every time you Greater Heal).

I'm going to assume you already know that the Attonement builds are completely useless, and so you will never use smite.

Its been a while since i had my disc setup but i never used attonement due to the fact that i prefer to concentrate on healing or dps'ing not both so i never really tried that build though it did seem interesting but seemed to be a bit risky as from what i saw the heal you get from it could go to anyone or is it to the lowest health person in range?
As for stats:

Int > Spi/Haste > Mastery > Crit

Mastery is only slightly better than Crit, but until the gear levels go up it's worth getting more Mastery than Crit.

Yeah thats basically what i have been going for, knowing that Int is the best for Mana as well as Spell Power and that Spirit is needed alot so i would tend to put that above Haste in the importance of stats, crit from what i have read has the WORST conversion so its ussually avoided by most but not sure if thats specific for any talent tree or all of them

My current stats:
1105 Haste
905 Mastery
362 Crit

My stats are (im a Drenei, yeah i know worst race for healers - should have gone gnome)

and this is in Holy my Haste is987, Mastery 796 and my Crit is 476 this is all on unchanted and un-reforged gear so i know that my Crit will be lowered and put into Haste or Spirit i currently have 2,200 combat regen while still wearing a few dps items


Good luck I guess!

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post #226 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanCabbage;11923746 
'Some of the stuff you have said above is quite simply rubbish.'

I wanted to start my post with what you started yours with, since it applies to this post also.


Right, so you understand how shield is our best spell now, moving on...


Best spell is an exageration, but a required spell ofcourse.


At the start of the fight stack grace on the tank with pennance (3 ticks = 3 grace) and place a renew on him, if the fight will involve AOE damage then use a POM. You should be using Inner Will and not Inner Fire as the spell power benefit is very poor right now.

Use Inner Fire, even with full raiding gear it's still roughly a 7% spellpower increase, much better than a reduced mana cost on instant abilities which Disc Priests don't worry too much about, since our instant abilities are rather low mana costs anyway.

The only time i'd use Renew as Disc is before a pull, allowing you to drink the mana back after, making it effectively a free heal. Should Also use PoM on cooldown on the tank, including before a pull for the reason stated for Renew. Regardless of any AOE in the fight or not.




If the tank then takes damage you use Greater Heal + Pennance to heal him back up. Keep the renew on, and every 15 seconds, use Shield to get your mana back. You will _never_ and the rock means NEVER be using HEAL or FLASH HEAL, these are totally worthless spells that you might get away with in 25 man, but you can't afford to use in 5 man heroic or 10 man raiding. Take them off your bars.


I'd use Penance before a greater heal, useful for when you have borrowed time. (Penance doesn't consume borrowed time, just so you know.)

Both Heal and Flash heal can be valuable healing abilities, they're far from useless, they just require someone who can get their head around using them. Heal if spec'd can allow you to lower the Weakened Soul on the tank, if you only cast Heal once on the tank, it'l allow you to keep rapture on the 12second cooldown on the tank meaning a greater mana return from shields. Rather than loosing 3 seconds of rapture every time.

In a 3 minute fight, you're looking at 3 or 4 extra raptures by doing this, an extra 18% or 24% mana for the fight.

Flash Heal can be useful as an ability to save a life, but far from an ability you're able to spam anymore. Kind of agree that Flash heal has lost a lot of usefuless, but still worthy of a space on your action bars.



If you group takes damage, you can spam some prayer of healing, if they're really low, use power infusion on yourself (you should never use power infusion on anyone but yourself anymore)

Power Infusion is only useful for yourself if you're having problems keeping the group alive,, otherwise, i'd advise still putting it on the best caster dps you have there.



I'm going to assume you already know that the Attonement builds are completely useless, and so you will never use smite.

Hahaha, i've healed whole heroics with Attnement. Won't always get you through an encounter, but can deffinatly help. VERY FAR from completely useless.

P.S Can i get a link to your armory Smithy?

Kebsta, EU-Neptulon -- I might be in a PVP/Holy spec at the moment while we're on a weeks raid break... I should have mentioned I haven't killed everything so far, 3 bosses in Bastion, 3 bosses in Blackwing and 1 in ToFW (in case you wanted to discuss any certain encounters).

I think a lot of what you have said is right, but you've completely nit-picked on what I've said which is kind of pathetic. I've wrote what is simply a guide to healing as Disc that works, and works well... Attonement does not work well, it's useless - would you suggest to someone who is finding disc hard to use it? That's who I wrote this to help. No, you wouldn't. Would you use smite to heal a party over CoH? No you wouldn't. Would you rely on it for mana regain? No, you wouldn't. Please tell us more about why you're laughing about attonement being useful in any way apart from soloing and pre-nerfed Halfus in it's current state.

Inner Fire / Inner Focus -- 7% spell power over 15% off your instant casts + movement speed - this is your own personal opinion but all healers should have movement spead increases, unless your going to spend epic shards on an enchant now you'll be using 30 stanima + minor movement speed on boots with inner fire over say, 50 haste - so the benefit of this 7% spell power isn't as great as it first seems. If you tell me now that movement speed isn't important I'm actually going to start believing you don't actually play the game, or at least that you don't raid / are still leveling up. This being said, at this stage in the game you're probably right -- Inner Fire has it's uses but it's personal preference as to what you use - unless you can show me some good theory crafting that suggests that Inner Focus is as useless as you make it out to be?

Power Infusion shouldn't be needed by DPS, it's quite clear that healers obviously have the hardest time right now if your DPS is lacking in raids they're plain and simply bad players - they shouldn't need PI on any of the current content whereby anything to help the healing should be used in that way. AGAIN, this was written to help someone struggling with healing as Disc.

As for rapture and heal, I can greater heal the whole fight and not go OOM, and come next patch Flash Heal and Greater heal will work with strength of soul so I guess I'm already in the right mind set for when that kicks in... You can use heal to move the shield down to get the best out of rapture or you could be even more clever and simply use the great little Rapture Mod someone has kindly made that shows you the cooldown of rapture and makes a nice little noise for when it's ready so I can use it within a weakened soul effect in 10 man raids without any problem, and without wasting my time casting "heal".

I guess I get what you're trying to say in the grand scheme of things but you went a bit over the top on the criticising in my opinion...
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post #227 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithyD86;11968583 
Kebsta, EU-Neptulon -- I might be in a PVP/Holy spec at the moment while we're on a weeks raid break... I should have mentioned I haven't killed everything so far, 3 bosses in Bastion, 3 bosses in Blackwing and 1 in ToFW (in case you wanted to discuss any certain encounters).

I think a lot of what you have said is right, but you've completely nit-picked on what I've said which is kind of pathetic. I've wrote what is simply a guide to healing as Disc that works, and works well... Attonement does not work well, it's useless - would you suggest to someone who is finding disc hard to use it? That's who I wrote this to help. No, you wouldn't. Would you use smite to heal a party over CoH? No you wouldn't. Would you rely on it for mana regain? No, you wouldn't. Please tell us more about why you're laughing about attonement being useful in any way apart from soloing and pre-nerfed Halfus in it's current state.

Inner Fire / Inner Focus -- 7% spell power over 15% off your instant casts + movement speed - this is your own personal opinion but all healers should have movement spead increases, unless your going to spend epic shards on an enchant now you'll be using 30 stanima + minor movement speed on boots with inner fire over say, 50 haste - so the benefit of this 7% spell power isn't as great as it first seems. If you tell me now that movement speed isn't important I'm actually going to start believing you don't actually play the game, or at least that you don't raid / are still leveling up. This being said, at this stage in the game you're probably right -- Inner Fire has it's uses but it's personal preference as to what you use - unless you can show me some good theory crafting that suggests that Inner Focus is as useless as you make it out to be?

What you you consider more important - speed how fast you move or how fast you cast spells? how much of a bonus to movement speed does those head enchants give you anything worth while? as i tend to go with ones that give something else, like im debating between the 51int + 2% mana or the healer version with 51spirit +2% mana

now would that be more worth while then going with one that gives a movement speed increase? i tend to use the spell power one but mainly as i havent been on my healer long enough to try the other one, seems semi decent way to save a bit of mana, despite the fact that theres not that many spells that will benefit from it that i can recall


Power Infusion shouldn't be needed by DPS, it's quite clear that healers obviously have the hardest time right now if your DPS is lacking in raids they're plain and simply bad players - they shouldn't need PI on any of the current content whereby anything to help the healing should be used in that way. AGAIN, this was written to help someone struggling with healing as Disc.

Despite getting a lot of new gear for some reason i just fail at dps in shadow, i can barely get around 5k in boss fights, i know thats ***** but as i havent DPS'ed since hitting lvl 80 about 4 or 5 months ago, since then i removed shadow and went with a fully Disc/Holy spec and loved it now i just cant figure out how to get any better dps, i have tried liked 5 or 6 different talent sets and rotations but again nothing seems to work - any tips on how i could improve my Item Level is around 345 so i know my gear doesnt suck and that its something with me i just cant seem to find the best way to do it

As for rapture and heal, I can greater heal the whole fight and not go OOM, and come next patch Flash Heal and Greater heal will work with strength of soul so I guess I'm already in the right mind set for when that kicks in... You can use heal to move the shield down to get the best out of rapture or you could be even more clever and simply use the great little Rapture Mod someone has kindly made that shows you the cooldown of rapture and makes a nice little noise for when it's ready so I can use it within a weakened soul effect in 10 man raids without any problem, and without wasting my time casting "heal".

When is this new patch coming out? any other details of whats getting changed/fixed/nurfed? i might have to have another look at Disc setups i havent really tried with Disc since Cata but thats mainly due to the fact that the point of Disc (i thought) was to prevent damage more so then to heal after it and with that plus the fact that IMO PW:S is kinda VERY underpowered it kinda seems like a fail - how much does your shield absorb?

I guess I get what you're trying to say in the grand scheme of things but you went a bit over the top on the criticising in my opinion...

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post #228 of 317
Double post sorry.
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post #229 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmageddonAsh;11969095 
What you you consider more important - speed how fast you move or how fast you cast spells? how much of a bonus to movement speed does those head enchants give you anything worth while? as i tend to go with ones that give something else, like im debating between the 51int + 2% mana or the healer version with 51spirit +2% mana

now would that be more worth while then going with one that gives a movement speed increase? i tend to use the spell power one but mainly as i havent been on my healer long enough to try the other one, seems semi decent way to save a bit of mana, despite the fact that theres not that many spells that will benefit from it that i can recall

I personally use the 51 int + 2% max mana as disc benefits heavily from the high mana pool (bigger rapture procs + 15% more int as disc). As for movement speed - obviously on some standstill fights, and there aren't that many, haste on boots is going to be great. However with the current content meaning you have to move a lot I strongly suggest either using Inner Will or movement speed on boots as a priority. The faster you're in position the quicker you'll start to heal.

I can't comment on Shadow Spec as I'm not too great at it myself.


When is this new patch coming out? any other details of whats getting changed/fixed/nurfed? i might have to have another look at Disc setups i havent really tried with Disc since Cata but thats mainly due to the fact that the point of Disc (i thought) was to prevent damage more so then to heal after it and with that plus the fact that IMO PW:S is kinda VERY underpowered it kinda seems like a fail - how much does your shield absorb?

I don't think there is a definite ETA on the patch but I can tell you that from the front of MMO so far the biggest changes are:

*Power Word: Shield now costs 31% more mana to cast but it's effect has been increased by 208%
*Body and Soul now takes effect from Flash Heal and Greater Heal in addition to heal.
*Grace can now be stacked on multiple targets.
*Improved Power word shield now also increases the Shield absorb by 15/30% when cast on the priest.
*Glyph of Spirit of Redemption is now called Glyph of Prayer of Mending - the glyph now makes the first heal from PoM heal for 60% more.

I may have missed some big ones, especially from the holy tree, but I think they're the main Disc changes.

My replies in bold too!
El Nino
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El Nino
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post #230 of 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithyD86;11969741 
My replies in bold too!

the sound of the change to PW:S i think is decent, so at about a cost of around 4,500 mana it will now shield about 19-20k damage which of course will be increased so thats not too bad Or at 208% more does that mean its doubled or that its tripped? as 100% more would be 20k and 200% would be 30k right? if so thats even better, it should be able to absorb more then the measily 10k at the moment

Not too sure about the Spirit of redemption change, want that to make it so that when you die that thing you become lasts 6seconds more? and isnt that for Holy priests only. so if you cast Prayer of mending the next heal cast will do 60% more - not too sure about that still makes it kinda weak sure it will do about 10k healing still is kinda low

Liking the other changes sounds quite good
The White Box
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The White Box
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Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB (x1) Seagate 4TB(x1) Samsung SH-S223C/BEBE Corsair H80 Push-Pull Windows 7 
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Dell SP2309w Cheap Super Flower 750w Corsair Air 540 White 
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Razor Naga 2012 Edition None 
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