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[IH] California’s First Molten Salt Solar Energy Project Approved. - Page 6

post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by opensesame View Post
The problem with nuclear is that it produces toxic waste which one way or the other must be safely contained for at the very least thousands of years - and that's true no matter how you process it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
This topic has already been beat to death on OCN multiple times. Nuclear is not a real option. Storing the waste for 100,000 years is not better.
I won't argue about the price per kilowatt and all that, since I'm a little out of the loop at the moment. I'm all for solar, especially if it costs less of this currency we made up called money. But I'd like to touch on nuclear waste storage.

The problem with nuclear waste is purely political. Realistically, we can easily store the entire planet's current and future nuclear waste underground for millions+++ of years. There is no risk associated to this, and the cost would be minimal (probably 2-3 billion, petty change if it means eliminating emissions from coal).

And no, this isn't something I read online, it's not something I was brainwashed into. These are the conclusions I've come to from my own studies as a mining engineer.
    
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post #52 of 55
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Originally Posted by Stealth2o View Post
This is the future of our electricity. I truly hope this goes mainstream, I'm tired of burning oil.
No, this is not. We are reflecting the sun to heat salt. Quick question, does your CPU keep a lower temperature when the room you have it in is 40F or 90F? This could be horribly ineffective in northern climates because not only do they get less usable sunlight but they also have to contend with all around colder weather lowering the amount of usable heat generation.

For those talking about the one near Seville, Spain you are incorrect. It does not power the entire city. Not even close. On the other hand they are BUILDING one that they say will be able to do so. It isn't expected to be completed until some time in 2013 though. So in the future yes, but right now they only generate around 30 MW of power tops.

If you are wondering about the weather it seems like Seville gets up to around 99F (36C ish) in the summer but only as low as 43F (7C ish) in the winter. The high for the next week where I live is 34F and that is much higher than it has been for the last two weeks when it was topping out around 22F.

Got to say the idea is awesome though.

Edit: Just found out those temps for Seville were the average LOW for the winter months and what I listed was the high temps for where I live. Wiki is putting it at the lowest average monthly low for Seville at 5.2C or 41.4F.
Edited by Kirmie - 12/21/10 at 11:28am
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post #53 of 55
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Originally Posted by Lazorbeam View Post
I won't argue about the price per kilowatt and all that, since I'm a little out of the loop at the moment. I'm all for solar, especially if it costs less of this currency we made up called money. But I'd like to touch on nuclear waste storage.

The problem with nuclear waste is purely political. Realistically, we can easily store the entire planet's current and future nuclear waste underground for millions+++ of years. There is no risk associated to this, and the cost would be minimal (probably 2-3 billion, petty change if it means eliminating emissions from coal).

And no, this isn't something I read online, it's not something I was brainwashed into. These are the conclusions I've come to from my own studies as a mining engineer.
Nuclear waste IS a political issue but think about how many chemicals that big business has said won't leach into the groundwater and did or how many times we were told things were fool proof and weren't. There are certain areas that CAN house it that are not near ground faults or groundwater (and I'm not geologist) but nothing is certain for the next 1000 years. Just think about the cost alone in protecting those bunkers for 10,000 years.....

The point is that the waste is radioactive for 100,000 years, and while we might have room NOW, how crappy will things be if in 200 years we haven't found a way to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the amount of time that the waste is radioactive? See, this is why Nuclear is not a long-term option. Everyone who is for it is thinking about RIGHT NOW, which is what gets us into problems in the first place. I don't care about right now, tell me about how things will be in 200 years. The US Govt doesn't even have a plan for the waste beyond 100 years.
    
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post #54 of 55
that's a brilliant idea
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post #55 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
Nuclear waste IS a political issue but think about how many chemicals that big business has said won't leach into the groundwater and did or how many times we were told things were fool proof and weren't. There are certain areas that CAN house it that are not near ground faults or groundwater (and I'm not geologist) but nothing is certain for the next 1000 years. Just think about the cost alone in protecting those bunkers for 10,000 years.....

The point is that the waste is radioactive for 100,000 years, and while we might have room NOW, how crappy will things be if in 200 years we haven't found a way to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the amount of time that the waste is radioactive? See, this is why Nuclear is not a long-term option. Everyone who is for it is thinking about RIGHT NOW, which is what gets us into problems in the first place. I don't care about right now, tell me about how things will be in 200 years. The US Govt doesn't even have a plan for the waste beyond 100 years.
You'll very rarely encounter groundwater past 300ft, and beyond 2000ft it's almost unheard of (unless you're near aquifers). In stable geological settings, water movement is measured in pm/year, meaning it'll take 100 million years for the water to move noticeably. The storage containers used for nuclear waste are nearly impregnable, I've seen a jet-powered train strike a flame-engulfed container and there were no leaks after impact. Said containers were also dropped 100ft onto a steel spike and again, no leaks.

These containers would be placed deep underground, in clay beds. If (somehow) radioactive material leaks out, there's no way it's being carried to surface within the next billion years.

Since the setup would be very similar to a mine's (except we're depositing materials, vs extracting it), there is no need to guard it, seeing as how it's impossible to access the materials without a billion dollar's worth of equipment and years of work. And faults/shears/joints/slips/discontinuities do not happen within our time frames, at least not in stable geological settings.

Obviously, the problem is harder to explain to laymen, hence why any politician trying to justify it would just shoot himself in the foot. The problem is purely political.

It frustrates me that we have a great solution to nuclear waste, yet because of the irrational fear of having problems with it, we instead settle for polluting the planet NOW and FOR CERTAIN with tons and tons of fossil fuel emissions.
Edited by Lazorbeam - 12/22/10 at 5:05am
    
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