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What harms pc other than temp? - Page 4

post #31 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Sorry for double post. There are a few notes:

1. BIOS DDR settings are for Single DR, meaning half of what the actual freq
2. BIOS DDR settings are equal to the resulting DDR freq only at stock CPU freq (ref clock)
3. CPUz shows you actual freq.
4. BIOS will run your RAM at the certified timings for the selected setting, NOT for the resulting actual freq
5. DDR2 overheats!
6. Most DIMMS can do timings at least -1 of their certified for a freq, stable
7. Lowering timings can't damage the memory
8. BSOD = bad memory OC
Wow a bit confusing um ill see if i follow.

1. so the setting in the bios that is 233, 333, 400, 566 or whatever they are
is only ddr not ddr2 so they are half the 233 is actually 566 ddr2? the 333 is 666 ddr2 etc?

2. dont follow lol

3. ok

4. what do you mean certified timings? and what exactly are timings and what do they do?

5. it overheats? if i get a osod it is overheating?

6. -1 what? and if it goes down -1 is how much of an increase in performance is that? can some go lower than just "-1"?

7. so i can keep lowering until it is unstable?

8. that applies to lots of stuff not just ram dont it?

you said previously "333 / 5-5-5-17-15" what does this mean? can you change the numbers seperately?
    
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post #32 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Bump, not sure you saw the Edit and write back with the results
I just checked. what should i test with? Why send to pm? i can if u want though. How much of an oc do i have?
    
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post #33 of 65
Thread Starter 
Lol sorry for all the questions! Im a highly inquisitive person! and learn by asking questions. So thanks for all your help and baring with my lame noobness!
    
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post #34 of 65
Viruses
post #35 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Overclocker/Gamer View Post
Viruses
What?
    
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post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Customx3 View Post
Lol sorry for all the questions! Im a highly inquisitive person! and learn by asking questions. So thanks for all your help and baring with my lame noobness!
Np That's what the forum is all about So I guess we'll carry on in the thread. Ok, now here's what's happening

There are (were) 2 general types of memory- SDR and DDR
Those stand for Single Data Rate and Double Data Rate.
DDRs separately have DDR, DDR2, DDR3 and so on. Those numbers are just versions. DDR3 doesn't have 3x SDR freq.
The difference is SDR performs Read/Write operations once per cycle, DDR (1,2,3) performs read/write twice per cycle.

BIOS and CPUz shows you the Single DR freq. Meanin 667Mhz showed in CPUz is 1333Mhz actual. That's DDR3. For DDR2 the math is the same, jsut the freqs are lower- 400Mhz in CPUz mean 800Mhz actual DDR.
(that has nothing to do with single/dual channel!!)

Now, BIOS can set those freqs to whatever the mobo supports- for DDR2 those are 333, 400, 533 for 667 DDR2, 800 DDR2 and 1066 DDR2.

The settings in BIOS are equal to the resulting SDR frequancy only if you haven't raised the ref clock (some call it FSB). It's what you faise to OC your CPU. By default it's 200Mhz.

SO. BIOS setting of 333 & 200 Ref Clock result in 333Mhz shown in CPUz and 667Mhz actual DDR speed.

If you OC your CPU, however, those numbers get all messed:
With Ref Clock of 240, BIOS setting of 333 is not 333 in CPUz and not 667 actual DDR speed.
Raising the ref clock raises the resuting frequency per setting.

@200 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = 333Mhz SDR = 667 DDR
BIOS 400 = 400Mhz SDR = 800 DDR

@220 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = ~350 SDR = ~700 DDR
BIOS 400 = ~430 SDR = ~860 DDR

In general, you should always keep that last, actual DDR value to be the same as what your memory label says. If it's 667- keep it close to 667.
That's the last, actual DDR value, not the BIOS setting.

That's about if for freq.
Timings control the latencies of your memory. Generally lower latencies = better performance. It's very hard to say *how much better*. Dropping from CL9 to CL8 could be 1% increase, could be 10%. Drooping to CL7 could be 40%. It's hard to say.
However, lower latency (timing) is always better performance.
Different memories are capable of different timings. Not all DDR3 can do 667 CL6.

Now, there are certified timings for each freq that the memory has been tested on. Those are in the SPD section of CPUz. They are manually configurable from BIOS.
BIOS can automatically set your timings.
HOWEVER! BIOS will set the timings according to the setting, not the final, actual freq.
Meaning if your mem is certified for 333 CL5 (for example)

@200 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = 333 SDR = 667 DDR @CL5
BIOS 400 = 400 SDR = 800 DDR @CL6

but
@250 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = ~400 SDR = 800 DDR @CL5
BIOS 400 = ~500 SDR = 1G DDR @CL6

Meaning your BIOS does not know the resulting final freq and does not determine the timings according to it. If you OC and leave timings on AUTO, your RAM will always run at lower timings than certified and that could cause instability. You should manually experiment with those and see which are stable.

If you (as you should) set your BIOS settings in such a way, that your actual freq would be 333 SDR, 667 DDR, then try to manually set the timings for the lower level, 230 (or whichever it is). Then test for stability for at least 30 min

That's all I can think of for now. If I remember something more, I'll edit And please, ask on, that's the only way of learning
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post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Np That's what the forum is all about So I guess we'll carry on in the thread. Ok, now here's what's happening

There are (were) 2 general types of memory- SDR and DDR
Those stand for Single Data Rate and Double Data Rate.
DDRs separately have DDR, DDR2, DDR3 and so on. Those numbers are just versions. DDR3 doesn't have 3x SDR freq.
The difference is SDR performs Read/Write operations once per cycle, DDR (1,2,3) performs read/write twice per cycle.

BIOS and CPUz shows you the Single DR freq. Meanin 667Mhz showed in CPUz is 1333Mhz actual. That's DDR3. For DDR2 the math is the same, jsut the freqs are lower- 400Mhz in CPUz mean 800Mhz actual DDR.
(that has nothing to do with single/dual channel!!)

Now, BIOS can set those freqs to whatever the mobo supports- for DDR2 those are 333, 400, 533 for 667 DDR2, 800 DDR2 and 1066 DDR2.

The settings in BIOS are equal to the resulting SDR frequancy only if you haven't raised the ref clock (some call it FSB). It's what you faise to OC your CPU. By default it's 200Mhz.

SO. BIOS setting of 333 & 200 Ref Clock result in 333Mhz shown in CPUz and 667Mhz actual DDR speed.

If you OC your CPU, however, those numbers get all messed:
With Ref Clock of 240, BIOS setting of 333 is not 333 in CPUz and not 667 actual DDR speed.
Raising the ref clock raises the resuting frequency per setting.

@200 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = 333Mhz SDR = 667 DDR
BIOS 400 = 400Mhz SDR = 800 DDR

@220 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = ~350 SDR = ~700 DDR
BIOS 400 = ~430 SDR = ~860 DDR

In general, you should always keep that last, actual DDR value to be the same as what your memory label says. If it's 667- keep it close to 667.
That's the last, actual DDR value, not the BIOS setting.

That's about if for freq.
Timings control the latencies of your memory. Generally lower latencies = better performance. It's very hard to say *how much better*. Dropping from CL9 to CL8 could be 1% increase, could be 10%. Drooping to CL7 could be 40%. It's hard to say.
However, lower latency (timing) is always better performance.
Different memories are capable of different timings. Not all DDR3 can do 667 CL6.

Now, there are certified timings for each freq that the memory has been tested on. Those are in the SPD section of CPUz. They are manually configurable from BIOS.
BIOS can automatically set your timings.
HOWEVER! BIOS will set the timings according to the setting, not the final, actual freq.
Meaning if your mem is certified for 333 CL5 (for example)

@200 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = 333 SDR = 667 DDR @CL5
BIOS 400 = 400 SDR = 800 DDR @CL6

but
@250 Ref Clock
BIOS 333 = ~400 SDR = 800 DDR @CL5
BIOS 400 = ~500 SDR = 1G DDR @CL6

Meaning your BIOS does not know the resulting final freq and does not determine the timings according to it. If you OC and leave timings on AUTO, your RAM will always run at lower timings than certified and that could cause instability. You should manually experiment with those and see which are stable.

If you (as you should) set your BIOS settings in such a way, that your actual freq would be 333 SDR, 667 DDR, then try to manually set the timings for the lower level, 230 (or whichever it is). Then test for stability for at least 30 min

That's all I can think of for now. If I remember something more, I'll edit And please, ask on, that's the only way of learning
Wait so that means they're going to have TRD in the future? Wow. I didn't know that.
post #38 of 65
Thread Starter 
Haha ok thanks for the info. I set the cpu overclock that was default 200 to 265 to get the overclock i have on the cpu. i will go experiment for a minute and see what happens. what should i test with?
if p95 what should i set it to?

be right back!
    
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post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Customx3 View Post
Haha ok thanks for the info. I set the cpu overclock that was default 200 to 265 to get the overclock i have on the cpu. i will go experiment for a minute and see what happens. what should i test with?
if p95 what should i set it to?

be right back!
I have never used P95, so i don't know Orthos might be worse for testing, but is very simple to set up- you just select "CPU test" or "RAM test" from the drop-down, and click Start YOu could also test with a game- If you have a resource-hungry thing, set all textures to max and play for an hour Should be the fun way of doing it. If you get BSOD- it's not stable. If it's fine- it's fine But do keep an eye on the memory temperatures- this is a really big OC you have now, and they could overheat.
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Core i5 4460 AsRock H81M-DG4 Sapphire Rx470 Platinum KVR 1600 16Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
2x Seagate 3Tb Samsung 850 EVO 120 Scythe Ninja 3 Rev.B Windows 10 Pro 
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MouseAudio
Logitech G402 Sony MDR XD150 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon 750K 4.0Ghz AsRock FM2A75 Pro4+ Sapphire R9 270X Dual-X Kingston 2x4Gb 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 850 EVO 120  Western Digital 320Gb LiteON DVD-RW CoolerMaster Hyper Z600 
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post #40 of 65
Thread Starter 
What prog to use to monitor ram temp? how big of an oc is it? You said its really high like how much higher if at all possible could i go? I will test using orthos. (for now) and play battlefield bad company 2 on max later to see how it goes. Which of the below is the highest and is there a specific one that i could change to make better or to decrease to make stabler?

cl - 5
trcd - 5
trp - 5
tras - 15
trc 20

there was a ton other settings in the bios that wee in the same section as these.
    
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