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post #11 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalisburySteak View Post
get the t2i. got mine a few days ago. it's amazing. you can't go wrong with it. still adjusting to the controls a little (first DSLR )
The T2i is a great camera, but there are much more options than just the T2i.

There's the Rebel XS, T1i, 60D, D3100, D7000, D90, etc.
post #12 of 37
If you want a small DSLR camera I would go with one from the Panasonic or Olimpus...yea it's wrong to call them DSLRs but whatever...Pana and Oly have some nice mirrorless cameras and you should definitely look into them.

My advice goes to Pana G1 and its successors...dedicated controls, large sensor, smaller than the most DSLRs, and awesome ergonomics...if you want an even smaller large sensor camera go with GF1 or GF2...I tried NX5 and must say that Panasonic did a much better job overall with their EVIL cameras...

To sum up...look into Gx and GFx series...you won't be disappointed
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post #13 of 37
im trying to settle with a camera without fanboy bias. i currently have a new T2i a few days old. the t2i is great but i'd like to try other cameras. now that point & shoots are "pretty much dead" i'd like to see what sony and samsung have to offer before i go nikon/canon route.

canon and nikon have millions of fanboys out there who can sway u to only those 2 options. but im willing to see what other cameras have to offer.
im not trying to get all canon lenses so i really dont care about their lens selection. im not trying to spend 5 million on lenses and the research i've done so far nikon cameras seems to perform best in low light and better image quality. this photography stuff is very expensive and i personally could do a lot better with the money. (well for now as i use the money in my business)..
canon seem to be the best in video and there'r great youtube videos made by the T2i/60D/7D.. but i havent tried myself since i dont even have a good enough sd card let alone the lenses.

it'd be an uphill battle for sony, samsung and pentax but i think one of them will release a successful camera in 2011. if its not already out. especially going this mirrorless route. all it really takes is inovation, quality, image and heavy marketing/youtube and good prices.

the canon and nikon guys are not really pushing innovation because they have a comfortable lead and only really compete with each other.

i got my t2i very cheap and im gonna sell it locally and try another camera. the 60D's probably gonna be next. coz i tried playing around with the T2i but that 60D lcd just keeps calling me. maybe i'll settle for the 60D maybe i wont.
but thats my state of mind right now. im open to try other cameras.


i dont agree with the cons of the NEX-5 pointed out here. that just sounds like nikon/canon fan ppl bashing the nex-5 coz its different. canon/nikon entry level dslr body builds are not that nice either.

with sales of point & shoots sharply falling there are millions of ppl who would appreciate the mirrorless bodies with their basic lens. just like not everyone really needs a hexacore cpu.

sony, samsung, olympus and panasonic could make 2011 and 2012 an interesting year.
    
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post #14 of 37
I don't really see how you could misconstrue our comments as "fanboy".

It's a fact that the native mount for the NEX-5 only has a few lenses available. It's a fact that with DSLR lenses, the camera is incredibly lens-heavy. It's a fact that the sensor sits exposed. I've had dust on my mirror before. Without the mirror, that dust would have been on my sensor instead, which is much harder to clean. It's a fact that it lacks the physical manual controls that many DSLRs offer. It's a fact that Nikon and Canon have much more lenses to offer.

Now whether or not this matters to you is relative to each person. Nowhere did people say that "no one should ever get an NEX-5".

I personally am a photography enthusiast, and I probably will be upgrading my lens library for a very long time. Also, as you can tell with my sig, I have a lot of lenses for the flexibility that they offer.

I've also mentioned that not everyone needs these things, and that if the OP wants a small portable camera with DSLR quality, then he should get an EVIL.

The whole point of these help threads though is to make sure he knows both sides to the camera. Yea, the NEX-5 has its pros, but it also has its cons, and especially considering its price, it's in the OP's best interest for us to list them all out.

And regarding Sony and Pentax, they already have released great cameras. The A550 and K-x are regarded as some of the best cameras for your money. However, what they really need to work on are the lenses and accessories. I would love all those features in a body for the price, but ultimately what everyone will tell you is that lenses matter the most, and since they're lacking choices in their library, people like myself won't buy into them. You may not choose to invest in lenses, but it doesn't mean other people won't. The OP didn't specify in his post so we had to bring up the point just in case, because the fact is that some people going into entry level bodies do indeed think about full frame bodies and high quality glass in their future. So yea, you're right in that not everyone needs a nice lens library, but what if the OP was one of the people who wanted them? It's much better to give him all the info and have him choose for himself than just give him the sugar-coated version you seem to like and end up with him going "Oh, now what?" down the road when he's at an upgrade dead-end.
Edited by r31ncarnat3d - 12/27/10 at 6:36pm
post #15 of 37
performance wise and maybe even quality wise intel is much better than amd. but in the real world amd is good enough for most ppl. if not everyone. one of the factors being the cost.
in the science lab there is a difference btwn canon and nikon picture quality. and there probably will be a difference btwn nikon/canon and mirorrless picture quality. but will it be noticeable in the real world?

lenses:
to be realistic, don't the mirror-less cameras have good enough lenses out?
isnt mirror-less the direction nikon and canon should be headed?
the right way to hold a camera is under the lens anyway so isnt a lighter body an advantage over a heavier one?

who writes these reviews in sites like dpreview and what is their bias? canon and nikon seem like the companies to have plants in major sites to influence opinions..


the video advantage canon supposedly has in the real world doesnt turn out to be a real advantage. there's a i think 12 minute recording limit vs nex-5 16 min. the canons also tend to overheat because their sensors cannot handle video recording that well. i just feel a $700+ investment shouldnt have those issues.
i've seen some low light wide angle shots of a samsung mirrorless camera and they were spectacular.

just like Windows, canon and nikon do have an advantage in that they have huge followings. so u can easily get help from google and youtube.. but i just feel those 2 sell overpriced products just because.
they add a little feature on the same camera but prices still remain relatively high.
its good that pentax, sony, samsung and panasonic are around coz they or one of them could really change the game.


once u get sucked in canon or nikon you are in. them 2 make their money on lenses. they want as much money from me as they can get while they remain dominant, we're trying to get the best camera or system for our money..
canon and nikon make money on all their lenses and bodies. they'd like us to buy them all...
the new comers have, or will come up with, technology that would consolidate different range lenses so that we only need a few lenses.





im just sayin
    
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post #16 of 37
Canon and Nikon the major players in the camera game. Hands down no one is even close to them. Having said that I own a Panasonic G1 and I got it when it came out. And I'm in love with it. Dedicated controls, large sensor, decent array of lenses, and it is smaller than any DSLR! I don't like going around carrying T2i because it is huge and heavy. Simply someone doesn't need the features of T2i and that's it! G1 does the job perfectly for me, and that's it there's nothing else to add.

As Remix said Canon or Nikon are better cameras, but simply for me I prefer something else and don't need the quality/whatever from them...

Try it out and see if you like it...if not send it back and get something else!
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post #17 of 37
Remix65, I'm breaking your post down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remix65 View Post
performance wise and maybe even quality wise intel is much better than amd. but in the real world amd is good enough for most ppl. if not everyone. one of the factors being the cost.
in the science lab there is a difference btwn canon and nikon picture quality. and there probably will be a difference btwn nikon/canon and mirorrless picture quality. but will it be noticeable in the real world?
Actually, in lab there is very little difference between Canon and Nikon, they just keep going back and forth between who might be ever so slightly better at a given time. Both manufacture fantastic cameras and lenses, so it really comes down to personal preference and minor trade-offs.

In the real world, the answer is yes and no. If you photograph birds or sports, being able to have a fast super-telephoto like a 400 f/2.8 combined with a full-frame body that has fantastic high-ISO image quality will allow you to do your job better than a typical consumer zoom that maybe does 300 f/5.6 on a body that has mediocre high-ISO performance. On the other hand, if you're just a casual shooter on vacation you could turn out perfect results with any of the systems out there.

Quote:
lenses:
to be realistic, don't the mirror-less cameras have good enough lenses out?
isnt mirror-less the direction nikon and canon should be headed?
the right way to hold a camera is under the lens anyway so isnt a lighter body an advantage over a heavier one?
Depends on how you define "good enough." There are no fast zooms and a limited selection of prime lenses for the EVIL systems, and for good reason. You wouldn't use a 600 mm f/4 or a 24-70 f/2.8 on a NEX-5, because then it defeats the purpose of a small camera. For some photographers, nothing can ever replace lenses like that.

However, for the point and shoot user migrating to an interchangeable lens camera, the lenses on EVIL cameras are still leaps and bounds ahead of anything on a point and shoot. Less distortion, less coma, less CA, better sharpness...

A heavy body actually is very helpful in stabilizing the shot, as the mass of the entire camera tends to help damp vibrations from your hands shaking and the like.

Quote:
who writes these reviews in sites like dpreview and what is their bias? canon and nikon seem like the companies to have plants in major sites to influence opinions..
Photographers, just like you and me. They just follow a prescribed test suite. It's just like benchmarking in the computer world. And if Canon and Nikon are engaged in payola schemes to get higher ratings, then how do you explain the fact that of the Nikon D7000, Canon 60D, and Pentax K-5 (all competitors in the same price range), the Pentax got the highest score of the bunch? They decided that the Pentax did the best on their test suite, and so they gave it a higher score, just like anybody would say a given nVidia card would be better than a given AMD card if it performed better in Crysis and the like.

Quote:
the video advantage canon supposedly has in the real world doesnt turn out to be a real advantage. there's a i think 12 minute recording limit vs nex-5 16 min. the canons also tend to overheat because their sensors cannot handle video recording that well. i just feel a $700+ investment shouldnt have those issues.
All cameras heat up during video. That's simple physics. Also, camera sensors aren't radically different between models. The NEX-5 probably uses a similar sensor to the Nikon D3100, as Sony manufactures most of Nikon's sensors. And the recording limit is due to file system limitations, not the actual camera. There are very few cameras that will record longer than what can fit into a 4 GB clip.

Quote:
i've seen some low light wide angle shots of a samsung mirrorless camera and they were spectacular.
Any camera can turn out fantastic images in the hands of a good photographer. It's like a musician. Give Jimmy Page a cheap Epiphone and he'll still sound like Jimmy Page.

Quote:
just like Windows, canon and nikon do have an advantage in that they have huge followings. so u can easily get help from google and youtube.. but i just feel those 2 sell overpriced products just because.
they add a little feature on the same camera but prices still remain relatively high.
its good that pentax, sony, samsung and panasonic are around coz they or one of them could really change the game.
Your comparison of Windows to Canon and Nikon is bad. A better would be comparing photography to audio recording. The standard in the audio world is ProTools. Almost every single professional recording studio is equipped with some sort of ProTools setup, even if it's just so they can import the audio to another software package. Are there better, more-featured programs for the price than ProTools? Absolutely. Sonar, Cubase, Reason, Logic, Reaper, and Ableton Live are all perfectly capable programs that cost less than a top-of-the-line system that uses ProTools. But it's the concept of a standard. The reason why Canon and Nikon are the standards today is because they won the battles in the earlier days of photography. Nikon developed better metering and brought autofocus to the professional market, while Canon improved autofocus to the point where every sports shooter on the sidelines at a big football game would have a Canon camera.

As far as prices, they can get away with that because of a little thing called economics. Photographers might feel they get enough more utility out of a Canon or Nikon over other manufacturers, and so they'll be okay paying more money for it! Demand drives the market. And with the exception of the inherent features of an EVIL camera (like EVF and a smaller body), most features on the other manufacturers aren't huge improvements (or are just comparable or even inferior) over what Canon and Nikon have done. Sure, the features are comparable between a Nikon D7000 and Pentax K-5, but I've already bought into the Nikon system and it works for me. If I had bought a Pentax SLR, I'd be drooling all over the K-5 as a potential upgrade.

Quote:
once u get sucked in canon or nikon you are in. them 2 make their money on lenses. they want as much money from me as they can get while they remain dominant, we're trying to get the best camera or system for our money..
canon and nikon make money on all their lenses and bodies. they'd like us to buy them all...
the new comers have, or will come up with, technology that would consolidate different range lenses so that we only need a few lenses
That reason is just preposterous. Canon and Nikon are businesses, just like Pentax, Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic. Of course they want you to buy their products--that's how any business makes money! It's not like the other manufacturers are saints that are losing money on every camera they sell. Sure, competition might bring prices down, but it already has to an extent. The Canon 60D, Nikon D7000, and Pentax K-5 all sell for around the same price for the same feature set, with Pentax having the slightest of edges. Similarly, the Canon 5D Mark II, Nikon D700, and Sony A900 all sell for about $2500, and each camera is perfectly capable and turns out fantastic images. The Canon has the best (and the only) video mode of the the three, the Sony has the highest resolution images, and the Nikon has the best build quality and autofocus system. Just depends on what you have and what you need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Komder View Post
Canon and Nikon the major players in the camera game. Hands down no one is even close to them. Having said that I own a Panasonic G1 and I got it when it came out. And I'm in love with it. Dedicated controls, large sensor, decent array of lenses, and it is smaller than any DSLR! I don't like going around carrying T2i because it is huge and heavy. Simply someone doesn't need the features of T2i and that's it! G1 does the job perfectly for me, and that's it there's nothing else to add.

As Remix said Canon or Nikon are better cameras, but simply for me I prefer something else and don't need the quality/whatever from them...

Try it out and see if you like it...if not send it back and get something else!
Very nice point!
post #18 of 37
Thank you laboitenoire and komder.

As I've said Remix, different needs for different people. You may not need a large lens library, but I do. My personal shooting style wants/needs a good collection of fast primes and (soon-to-be) a fast general purpose lens. You may not need it, but it doesn't mean that other people won't. And based off of the OP:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeker The Cat View Post
any camera people here use on of THESE SONY NEX-5 cameras?

i tried one out yesterday it seemed really well built and pretty solid, was wondering if anyone has one and can give me some pros and cons about this sucker!!

How can you tell if Squeeker is headed towards casual or enthusiast photography? It's better to let him know both sides of the story. Like I said, the NEX-5 is great for casual photography, but it has severe disadvantages for enthusiast photographers. Squeeker is intelligent enough to make the decision for himself based on his own needs. If he decides that he doesn't want to go into photography as a serious hobby (as many people don't), then he will do so. It won't do him any good to wipe out an entire side of the argument.

As for everything else, laboitenoire echoes my thoughts perfectly.
post #19 of 37
Thread Starter 
WOW, ok i pretty much an enthusiast photographer, BUT would like to be more someday...now im taking pics of things around the house, the pets, my kids at christmas, crap in the back yard.........so id say that makes me an enthusiast. so saying that something like the T2i is probably overkill for me, BUT if i want to grow and excell in photography then something like the T2i will be great. with the NEX-5 i held it, played with it, it felt small and nice till i actually learned that their lenses are more than the camera itself. i have read on other forums that people with the nex-5 swear by it, but those are people with $$$ to spend $800.00 on a decent lens. NOT FOR ME!! so yes canon and nikon are the big boys........mostly cause they have been there from the beginning...........you CANT argue that
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post #20 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeker The Cat View Post
WOW, ok i pretty much an enthusiast photographer, BUT would like to be more someday...now im taking pics of things around the house, the pets, my kids at christmas, crap in the back yard.........so id say that makes me an enthusiast. so saying that something like the T2i is probably overkill for me, BUT if i want to grow and excell in photography then something like the T2i will be great. with the NEX-5 i held it, played with it, it felt small and nice till i actually learned that their lenses are more than the camera itself. i have read on other forums that people with the nex-5 swear by it, but those are people with $$$ to spend $800.00 on a decent lens. NOT FOR ME!! so yes canon and nikon are the big boys........mostly cause they have been there from the beginning...........you CANT argue that
I'm not exactly sure what lenses you're looking at or what your definition of a "decent lens" is, but Canon and Nikon also make lenses that far surpass the cost of an entry level body.

With Canon, we have the basic entry-level lenses and the consumer lenses that are all <$500, but we also have L-lenses that are $1,000+.
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