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[ZDNet] Microsoft quietly shuts down Office Genuine Advantage program - Page 5

post #41 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsMassive View Post
all this Genuine crap from Microsoft really pisses me off.

Everything you buy or download from them is " Genuine "

you no longer buy windows 7. you have to buy Windows 7 Genuine.
three genuine copies here.
post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by -iceblade^ View Post
i've noticed this as well... .doc still is the basic format i save to when giving to other people because they all use office 2003 or don't know how to save as... and i'm not the only one.
There are a number of reasons. DOCX appears not for any technical advantage. Perhaps the only advantage is when rendering a document into a web page, since DOCX is XML. However, large corporations have little need for this, because they don't want their documents to be all over the web anyways, and anything they want on the web will be created by a web master who will use the tools they are used to. It seems to me that DOCX unifies the weaknesses of Word with the misunderstanding that large corporations will want to post each and every document onto a web site without a vetting process in place. Of course, DOCX might have brought advantages to the table, if they could have worked out the flaws in the rendering process.

In the organization I work for, they had enough clout (and the threat that they would compile, customize and support our own version of Open Office) to obtain the version of Office they use in Europe, that is devoid of DOCX as a "default".

Home users do not have the hassles that corporations face. I might have a hundred or so files, lets say, so I can put them in any format I please, and conversions, easy-peasy. But in a corporation, they may be faced with huge numbers of files that would have to be converted. They are also deal with non-savvy people, so any failure for a document to render correctly, or to load correctly, or to be compatible with some lecacy machine - would bring about a work order into IT.

The scope can be vast. Think about the time that would be required to convert the department I work in. Everyone has their own drive, with their own stuff - that would be easy-peasy, even when multiplied by 25 people. But then our share on the Corporate Drive, which has about 2 TB of data that would have to be vetted. Not only documents, but spreadsheets, presentations, databases, etc. Then each of the 22 sites we operate in have their own local drives that would have to be vetted, each site with a variable number of systems, some of them legacy that couldn't even be upgraded. Then the process in which each person in the department would have to vet their own systems (for work at home situations), or the corporate laptops, and the provision of DOCX viewing for the corporate Blackberries, and the vetting of all of the various keychain drives and SD cards floating around. And this process would have to be instant, perhaps a weekend blitz where everyone would be on overtime so we have no downtime. Then the verification that DOCX would work on the non PC equipment, like the hundred or so VXWorks systems we support, and other machines that currently allow the viewing of standard DOC and PDF formatted documents.

And we are just a small department, 25 techs in an organization that has 10,000 people across 25 sites. Then to add in all of the other sites which we are associated with, and need to remain entirely compatible with for data exchange purposes. The problems would be endless. All corporates face this problem. My girlfriend's place is in the same boat, with I don't know how many documents that would need conversion and vetting. I do know that her share of the external drive sits at 200GB in the Documents folder - conversion would be a slow, labour intensive project. And the only has the documents they need for her clients, and for those thing she needs to handle two portions of the six or seven that the organization deals with.

So this is really where a home user will be far along the path, while the corporates will simply never be able to catch up, especially when Office 2010 brings basically nothing but grief to the table for corporates.
post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
There are a number of reasons. DOCX appears not for any technical advantage. Perhaps the only advantage is when rendering a document into a web page, since DOCX is XML. However, large corporations have little need for this, because they don't want their documents to be all over the web anyways, and anything they want on the web will be created by a web master who will use the tools they are used to. It seems to me that DOCX unifies the weaknesses of Word with the misunderstanding that large corporations will want to post each and every document onto a web site without a vetting process in place. Of course, DOCX might have brought advantages to the table, if they could have worked out the flaws in the rendering process.

In the organization I work for, they had enough clout (and the threat that they would compile, customize and support our own version of Open Office) to obtain the version of Office they use in Europe, that is devoid of DOCX as a "default".

Home users do not have the hassles that corporations face. I might have a hundred or so files, lets say, so I can put them in any format I please, and conversions, easy-peasy. But in a corporation, they may be faced with huge numbers of files that would have to be converted. They are also deal with non-savvy people, so any failure for a document to render correctly, or to load correctly, or to be compatible with some lecacy machine - would bring about a work order into IT.

The scope can be vast. Think about the time that would be required to convert the department I work in. Everyone has their own drive, with their own stuff - that would be easy-peasy, even when multiplied by 25 people. But then our share on the Corporate Drive, which has about 2 TB of data that would have to be vetted. Not only documents, but spreadsheets, presentations, databases, etc. Then each of the 22 sites we operate in have their own local drives that would have to be vetted, each site with a variable number of systems, some of them legacy that couldn't even be upgraded. Then the process in which each person in the department would have to vet their own systems (for work at home situations), or the corporate laptops, and the provision of DOCX viewing for the corporate Blackberries, and the vetting of all of the various keychain drives and SD cards floating around. And this process would have to be instant, perhaps a weekend blitz where everyone would be on overtime so we have no downtime. Then the verification that DOCX would work on the non PC equipment, like the hundred or so VXWorks systems we support, and other machines that currently allow the viewing of standard DOC and PDF formatted documents.

And we are just a small department, 25 techs in an organization that has 10,000 people across 25 sites. Then to add in all of the other sites which we are associated with, and need to remain entirely compatible with for data exchange purposes. The problems would be endless. All corporates face this problem. My girlfriend's place is in the same boat, with I don't know how many documents that would need conversion and vetting. I do know that her share of the external drive sits at 200GB in the Documents folder - conversion would be a slow, labour intensive project. And the only has the documents they need for her clients, and for those thing she needs to handle two portions of the six or seven that the organization deals with.

So this is really where a home user will be far along the path, while the corporates will simply never be able to catch up, especially when Office 2010 brings basically nothing but grief to the table for corporates.
The conversion is simple and easy for everything other than a few macros that may need to be fixed (IIRC I only encountered a couple of specific macros that had problems out of 5k+ documents/spreadsheets with macros). I don't know where you get "slow, labour intensive project" out of the wealth of automatic tools / methods you can implement to convert the files. I think you need to do a little bit more research via the search engine of your preference; you probably could have found an easy method to do it within the time it took you to write your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dock #89 View Post
And just how many legit keys have you had not activate by phone? I've activated lots of them by phone and haven't had a problem yet.
I've never had any activation issues with Office. On my personal PC, I've had to call and speak to a representative a couple of times with XP a long time ago. However, that was only because I had been dinking around with slipstreaming features and went through the standard, web-based activations three or four times in the same day. The reps just asked me to read the key to them, asked me where I got it, then gave me the activation code each time. It took about two minutes each call, no problemo.
Edited by mrjminer - 12/21/10 at 1:24pm
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post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
I said who would "buy". (hint, hint) My friend gave it to me. My friend from the internet who sent it over tor. Not much different than mixtapes recorded from the radio.

I actually use Unbuntu and OSX 95% of the time. I'm only forced to use Micro$oft for DirectX games.
point still stands. you use it because it has value to you.
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post #45 of 53
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Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
There are a number of reasons. DOCX appears not for any technical advantage. Perhaps the only advantage is when rendering a document into a web page, since DOCX is XML.
The OpenDocument format predated OOXML (DOCX, XLSX etc) and is also XML. Unlike OOXML, it didn't undergo a fast-tracked review process, and it's a fairly simple format (about 1000 pages vs 7000 for OOXML). It has almost the same disadvantages as OOXML though: lack of support. Plenty of applications lack full support for ODF, often using export filters rather than inbuilt native support for saving in the format. OpenOffice (and LibreOffice) are the only widely-used office suites that support it I think. That's still a step ahead of OOXML though, which has exactly zero full support by any existing office suite, which is why it's no surprise that companies are avoiding it for now.

The only reason for OOXML is to give MS the opportunity to control yet another standard; a standard that they don't even support yet.
Edited by randomizer - 12/21/10 at 7:04pm
    
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post #46 of 53
None of my PCs are running bootleg software.

All 5 rigs run Windows either purchased (DVD) or a digital download from MSDNAA, with a license key that's also provided by MSDNAA.

Office 2007 is purchased, and so is my Office 2003.
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post #47 of 53
i smell trouble a brewing with new annoying measures
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post #48 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post
Yes it is. There is not a single office suite that supports Office Open XML properly. Not surprising really since it is about 7000 pages long and never went through a proper review process.
Wrong, Microsoft Office does. And that makes up nearly all of the Office suite market. Openoffice is tanking. I've also never had a problem with GDocs's support.
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post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124 View Post
Wrong, Microsoft Office does.
No it doesn't. It supports a transitional, half-baked, non-standard implementation that is incompatible with the ISO standard. It's sort of like MS Office's support for ODF, which is also non-standard. Microsoft do not support standards (even ones that they push for), they re-invent them.
Edited by randomizer - 12/26/10 at 4:18pm
    
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post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjminer View Post
The conversion is simple and easy for everything other than a few macros that may need to be fixed (IIRC I only encountered a couple of specific macros that had problems out of 5k+ documents/spreadsheets with macros). I don't know where you get "slow, labour intensive project" out of the wealth of automatic tools / methods you can implement to convert the files.
You are completely wrong because what I am talking about is corporate adoption of DOCX, where they have hundreds of thousands of files - or more - which becomes a pretty massive IT project on it's own. Home users, really, they have no problem because they may have tens or maybe a hundred files - tops, so conversion is not so difficult.

Any conversion is problematic, expecially if DOCX does not render a document exactly the same as the DOC version. This is a very, very real problem for corporations - costly, and really, an incorrect conversion can be a real legal hassle - multi-million dollar law suits can be lost because of rendering flaws in contracts. Corporations also have specific style guidelines that must be exactly followed, so DOCX, which is not a document format but rather, a web page construction format, may have to deal with huge numbers of problems.

Even with automated tools, there has to be staff to collect the documents, to feed them into the automatic converter, then to have staff scrutinize the output to ensure that each guideline is followed exactly.

Then there is the problem with any firms that deal with anything with the European Union, since in the EU, DOCX is banned - and DOC remains and will remain the norm, along side of RTF. They ruled that since DOCX is a locked, proprietary format, it can not meet the requirements of the free market system, and hence, MS can not sell it in the EU. This is a non-trivial problem.

Not to mention the fact that DOCX has no real place because it serves no purpose. People use Word to create documents that they print, or that they convert to PDF for someone else to print - on printers; people do not use Word to construct web pages or web sites - which is the only raison d'etre for the DOCX format. MS simply tried to invent something stupid, and then they couldn't even get it right.

My solution for DOCX is that is someone sends me one - I instantly delete it - problem solved. No bad rendering, no flaws, no craziness. If they want to send me a document, they can send me a real format, like TXT, RTF, DOC or PDF - all of which are valid and work - while DOCX is just a horror show of incompatibility and bad rendering. Even MS does not guarantee that their documents will render correctly, even on two identical workstations set up in the exact same manner - so if MS won't use their crummy format, then why should anyone else?
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