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Mini Box Cascade

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
I'm working on finishing this Cascade up, but I just signed up here and thought I'd share it.

This is one I posted at XS as well, so it's easy to cut and paste a thread here, sorry if it's like spamming, but I'll be updating this as I go, til it's done.

It's my first cascade since I moved back from the UK to Canada, and it's gone pretty well

Got ahold of a cool little condensing unit. The curved condensor is awesome! It's about double what I would normally have on something like this, since it's a 'wraparound' style, just means a different thinking on the fan.

Spec

1 x LG 12cc Rotary 1st stage
1 x Toshiba 12cc Rotary 2nd stage
12000 btu curved condensor
18 plate HX
6' .040 captube 1st stage
6.5' .031 captube 2nd stage
3' hydrogen flex 2nd stage (cool ebay score, rated to 3000psi)
R290/R1150
Big stepper Evap, can't remember who's but Duniek comes to mind.

The chassis frame is about 1' Square. Everything fits though, just barely, with room for insulation and wiring.

Barrel fan setup is in place, It adds around 5" on top but it's not too awkward and I can set up the panels to pretty it up. I figured out the low fan setting on it, and it's around 200 cfm, but less noisy than the compressor at that speed so I'm happy enough with it.

High pressure came WAY down with that, still frosting about 1" from the compressor, or just after the accumulator. 110psi high and -8psi low with the fan at low speed. -50ish HX temp. After a slight increase in charge, more like -3psi low/120psi high with the second stage running unloaded, and up to 5psi low/140psi high at the 350w test, so the first stage is pretty solid.

About -45 running no load, and -32 full load on the HX.



I had to give up on the 'guts' being that pretty with the space being so confined, but the panels will make it look nice on the outside, and being a 'sealed' box environment it should keep a lot of the compressor noise inside.

The insulating is all there, found a basic HP cutoff switch to throw on for 375psi (highest I could find in the range I was after) and I have a probe on the HX now too, so it's all more or less there, waiting for final wiring.




MAN it's tight in there! I had to shave the HX insulation down just a hair to fit, since the foam expanded the cardboard 'form' I made. I usually use foam tape for the wrap afterwards, but I don't have the 1.5mm to spare,so the black duct tape is fine. Not really a big difference, I didn't need any more insulating, just the tape's not as pretty but whatever. It's sealed and the insulation is very good. Wish I could find non-expanding insulating foam.



When I finalised the charge and took off the lines, I gave the second stage a slight boost of gas, so I'm around -107 or so, might get to -110 eventually if I wait long enough but that's not really that big a deal. I'm good to 350+ watts and that's the more important part.

Final tests saw -93 at 350w even with the boost in gas, so the insulating gave a bit, and the extra gas took it away but that's fine with me.

I could get a lot better temps tuning it for 300w, but really I think that to be sure about 6 core load, especially with the temps of a cascade and the extra OC you 'should' get, you'd likely be ramping up to 350w or close. SS temps I think would only see more like 320w or so, but I've been starting to tune them to 350 as well for 6 core prep.

I got that final frame piece in after reworking the HX box, and made up a couple of 'dummy panels' out of styro so I could seal the chamber. The air is pulled through the condensor, into the box, then out the top, so the panels have to be on for the air to cool the condensor. Those stryo panels are just temporary though, til I have the real panelling done.

It's great though, the 'guts' are all done, just need to clean up the wiring, mount the capacitors, install the switches, etc.

There's no pressure guages on this one, and in a way I've never really seen a critical need for them. I mean, if it's not working it's easier to diagnose, but most guys using a cascade don't need or often really understand what they mean.

So that as it is, I'm just setting it up with plugs for a K type meter to work with it. I don't have any displays left really to put on it, though I am considering using a Carel controller for the switching of the second stage. The probes will give real accuracy but the controller would be nice so that a person can just switch it on, and it would take care of the second stage. Would make sure someone didn't switch it on before it's ready too. So I probably will do if I can work out the programming on it. I have a couple Carel controllers, and I remember them being pretty odd to program.

So the final results look like the 'no load' temp of around -107, maybe a touch colder. HX temp unloaded around -45.

350w is giving a result of -93c evap, and the HX is pulling up to -32 after a long while on that load.




Those are the other pics from before I boosted the gas, but not much different than now. -107 seems like the coldest it goes though it will very slowly creep down and probably still hit -110 if you wait long enough.

So I'm pretty happy with that. I'll do another 'full range' of tests on the unit when I have the wiring and panels and stuff done. This was just to give me an idea of what the last insulation job would do, and where I'd stand on final results, from 0w up to 350w. Probably good to closer to 375w with the extra gas, but I'll test that out when it's a lot prettier

Funny, it's not a lot bigger than the Xmas box project, but it's SO heavy. 50+Kg in a pretty compact setup, kind of tricks you when you go to pick it up.

I'm thinking it's gone a lot better than I'd expected, being my first cascade in a long time (been around 4 or 5 years now?) and the first with R1150, so I'm pretty stoked that it's working 100%.

I'm even happier that it's got that high load I was hoping for. I really want to see in the hands of someone with a 6 core CPU to see if I'm close in my thinking of 6 core load. Now that I'll have a good temp/load database off this unit, when it does see a 6 core full load test I'll know what load it's at based on the comparison. Would help everyone I think, if a really clear comparison was available.

So she's running nice

Good to see that -100 again too

So yeah, now it's just the panels, and some final wiring. I hope to get the Carel controller figured out, and make it an 'automatic' system.

The temporary styrofoam panels make it look a bit funny but they do enough to make it work so I know when it's panelled out, it'll work well

So yeah, now I've posted a SS and a Cascade, I'll stop spamming you with my projects


Gray
post #2 of 7
Small world Gray
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post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Sure is

Been a bit quiet at XS, hoping to find another site to play around the phase section
post #4 of 7
-93c @350w!!! very impressive.
Hey you can send it to me, I've got a 6 core system.... I'm just saying the option is there lol
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post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by closeracing View Post
-93c @350w!!! very impressive.
Hey you can send it to me, I've got a 6 core system.... I'm just saying the option is there lol


Ok ok so what was that address again?

*shuffles off to the post office*

To be honest I was hoping for better, but I just don't have any 1hp compressors kicking around.

I'm really torn these days though...

I mean, an SS gets you -50 or so.

A 2 stage can get you -100 or so.

3 stage cascades....

-120? -125?

I'm really wondering if it's worth that much work and cost to get 25c colder. If it was just a bit more cash to but the junk, sure, but R14 is brutal for pricing, and all the valving and extra parts....

Dunno.

now that I'm back in -100 land I'm starting to think colder, and I just don't know.


But hey CR good to see you here too Seems like the phase section on most of the forums has the same lurkers
post #6 of 7
Was this for your personal use or did you build this for someone?
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i5 2500k Biostar TZ77XE4 6950 6950 
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8gb - DDR3 main: 120gb SSD 830 + 3 1tb drives Air Win7 
MonitorPowerCase
3 x DELL ST242OL  OCZ 900W Lian-Li Custom 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 2500k Biostar TZ77XE4 6950 6950 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
8gb - DDR3 main: 120gb SSD 830 + 3 1tb drives Air Win7 
MonitorPowerCase
3 x DELL ST242OL  OCZ 900W Lian-Li Custom 
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post #7 of 7
Thread Starter 
Most of the time it's for someone else. Kind of.

Don't really take on custom orders like you do, I try to just build it, then sell it afterwards. I find it more relaxing and way more like a hobby if I do it that way. There will be times when it's 'an order' to fill, but as much as possible, that's the way I like it.

So it's not for me, but I think I have 5 coolers here in varying stages of done, and I can't really use them all so they're just there, and when I'm happy then someone can get them.

I don't have a lot of hardware right now though, so probably won't keep the cascade this time. I've got what I need to do a TXV/CPEV on the next 2 stage, so it's cool.

Kind of like you, I can always make one when I need it

But I'm gearing up for a 3 stage build soon too, so I may end up putting the other one on hold.

Crazy, but I like building them way more than using them now. Some get hooked on benching and overclocking (I was) but now I'm hooked on cooling.

So the answer is no, this one's probably not for me, but I don't have a buyer/order for it.


Gray
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