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Quiet 'Quad Compressor' All in One Unit

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
Here I am, reposting another unit I'm working on tongue.gif

I figured this was pretty relevant though, with so many asking if a fridge comrpessor will work for an SS.

It will if you build it right. You can't just throw your PC into a fridge since they don't build them with enough capacity to cool your PC, but in an SS with the right parts, they work well and while not as cold as the larger compressors, will hold even quad cores just fine.

I found an assortment of compressors that fit the bill. Had to be small enough to fit the compact design, large enough displacement for the job, and most important, quiet.

All different ones though. Wanted to see which would stay quiet under load, and if the slight difference in brand and CC's would make much of a difference, considering they're all around the same BTU rating, other than the larger displacement CPU compressor.

Specs so far

GPU compressors
Tecumseh 2.4cc low temp
Danfoss 2.6cc low temp
Huayi 2.9cc low temp

CPU compressor
Samsung 1/5hp low temp

Common condensor 12000btu/4
10 passes per gpu
12 passes for cpu
14" x 13" x 2.5"
Works out to the equiv. of 6x8" gpu and 8x8" cpu condensors
img0202lz.jpg

Custom case
12" x 15" x 20"
Central outlet for flex lines, will be designed for a PC case to go on top with room to go beside the lines with the PC side panel removed, or cut the PC case and have the lines inside.img0198tq.jpg
I fabricated the case with metal I had here. Bit of a variety of pieces but it's all welded so nice and strong and ready for panels. Haven't decided completely yet, but I'm tempted to go with Perspex and have it a smokey or black finish.
img0197t.jpg

Won't see the insides when it's done, but I painted the chassis for now. Nicer that way. It's all galvanised metal so it was awful to weld. Came out ok, and the ugly bits aren't visible anyway.
img0200ew.jpg
img0203ib.jpg

The case and compressors are a perfect fit. That is, all the room is taken up so no room for error. I'll have plenty for wiring but as far as temperature displays go I'm going to have to go flush mount. Only ones I can find are the awful PC case things tongue.gif but they're ok to -50 and they'll do for reference anyways. A real 4 temp display would be better but I can't find one that really suits.
img0206wb.jpg

The evaps are going to be a Chilly1 head for the CPU and a pair of @itor GPU evaps along with the modified Kayl GPU evap I made for that other test unit.
img0213l.jpg
img0215hc.jpg

The ideal thing about this is that it's getting away from the multihead unit where you need to deal with balance and have a huge noisy compressor to go with it. A waterchiller was a thought, sure, but direct die is more ideal I think. Smaller compressors in multiples can do the same job while being quieter are more efficient.

I'm shooting for 200w per head on all 3 gpu, with the CPU evap tuned for 260 watts.

The temps I'm expecting on the GPU heads under load at 260w are similar to the test unit I built, around the -5c mark, but I think that with the temps you'll see on the GPU it will only OC to a level that would pull 200w.

I may just tune them a bit heavier, or right up to the 260w levelon the GPU's.

The CPU I want full coverage, and I'm hoping to see -20 or so at 260 to 300w. Haven't used a Samsung compressor before, but it's bone silent biggrin.gif If it gives a decent level of cooling, and can remain silent at the higher load/backpressure, I'm a happy guy.

The condensor will be running either 9x120mm fans or 4x140mm fans. I haven't decided yet. Better condensor coverage with the 120's, and can run them slower for noise levels. 140's are naturally quieter but the sizing is wrong, and I have no room for shrouding so I need a full cover of fans for sure. We'll see how it works out. I still need to buy them, but will stick a barrel fan on for testing if I don't have them yet.

So far the CPU phase unit is together with the Chilly1 head. The 1/5hp compressor is set at 1-3psi unloaded, and with a quick ‘flame test’ pushes the low pressure up to around 18psi. Frosting just at the compressor inlet with no floodback. I’m pretty sure that it has the capacity for 260w with that kind of pressure response but with a smaller compressor Ican’t be sure until it’s on the tester, possibly later tonight, possibly tomorrow.
img0214z.jpg

I have the GPU lines left to assemble but the short flex’s are done, just need the larger flex line installed.
img0216ui.jpg

the plan is to have the more flexible and smaller flex to the gpu's, with the heavier flex directly attached that can be shaped to the exact fit. Should be a good combination of flexiblity, size and vibration dampening.

That's as far as I've gotten. I'll update when I get more done, but it's pretty close and once the other lines are brazed I can finish up the insulation and get to load testing.

I did add one accumulator per GPU due to the smaller pipe size and short suction lines. I didn't add one to the CPU line due to size limits, but it's got 3/8 pipe along with a long 5/8" flex, so volume isn't the issue like on the GPU lines.
img0212tt.jpg
img0207ix.jpg

So here is the current setup. The two-part flex lines worked very well, but in future i think it would be much easier to just use a smaller flex on the GPU's in one piece. This setup is really cool though, allows for a more solid run to the card, then a really flexy line for the finer adjustments for install.
img0222n.jpg
I added a basic barrel/cube fan for testing until I've got the flat axial fans here. Runs quiet enough though not what I want, around 200cfm at low speed.

They're all maxed out for load now, ready for load testing.
img0217yu.jpg

It's funny that the Tecumseh is the smallest of the compressors but really the noisiest of all 3 gpu compressors. Figures though, Tecumseh always seems to be the loudest of compressors in any size and capacity range.
img0218ll.jpg

The Danfoss is the quietest of course biggrin.gif but the Huayi isn't that far behind, and it's good to see since in actual production it could be a very inexpensive alternative. Knowing it's also capable at higher loads, I think it's a winner all around.
img0219tl.jpg

The Samsung isn't bad for noise either considering it's higher capacity. Under load is where it's most meaningful. Looking forward to finding out how much the noise increases with load.
img0221vk.jpg

So just one initial load test done, and it's about what I expected.

Idle/unloaded, around -30c with 8psi low.
img0224k.jpg

260w worked smile.gif and sat around 40psi low.
img0226i.jpg

That was on the larger of the GPU compressors, the Huayi.

The front temp is the evap itself, and the back one is the actual plate temperature of the load tester. About a 20-25 degree difference across the thermal paste, so heat transfer isn't too bad. At that heatload I expected something in that region.

I don't have any real information on how high GPU heatload will go, and I haven't seen much of anyone showing GPU temps vs evap temps on a single stage cooler. Would be great to compare this info with actual installs.
Results on the CPU unit...
img0301w.jpg
img0299t.jpg
img0298v.jpg

So -19 at 300w now that I have the tester to set it up smile.gif

Should be fine for Quad core now, and the -20 range is great biggrin.gif
Really quiet even with load on it, still under 20db.
Running about 18psi low at full load

Bit tired tonight, so I'll get on it again tomorrow. Should get all the load testing done.

I may just leave it at 260w capacity though. I'm hoping to see the other circuits have similar results, though perhaps not as good with the smaller compressors.

I've now got the variable tester setup, so will likely be tuning for around 200 to 225w per gpu.

I think it ends up being somewhat ideal though, for a person wanting 'day to day' usage with a SS cooler. The temps aren't so low that they require hardcore insulation, and under even a small load, they should be around ambient on the exposed part of the card's board. I'm thinking a pretty standard insulation job of the core area, like any cpu install, would be sufficient.

Comparing results against water, assuming the full 260w, means a minimum of 20 to 25 degrees colder gpu temps smile.gif which I think would translate into much better OC results. I think the difference would be much higher but if you have a high end water setup, able to maintain a 25c block temperature even under full load, how much higher would the gpu temp be? 20c? 25c? If so, and the gpu temp would average more like 50c at best under load with a high OC and high Vcore. A quick look at someone's 'roundup' of blocks seems to indicate 50c gpu temp at best with an overclock on 480gtx but no indication if that's under load.

Would like to see how it compares that way to water, get an idea of how beneficial this kind of small yet high capacity setup would be.

I've been a bit busy finishing up the Cascade cooler I'm working on, but this one will be back on the bench soon.

I hope it answers some questions so far about what compressors are capable of. Small ones will still hold high load. Just at warmer temps. I think if you're 30c colder than water cooling, it's still worth the effort really.

It'll be using a bunch of quiet 120mm fans or maybe 140's, not sure. That barrel/cube fan is just there so I can test the system, it's way too big and ugly to stay there biggrin.gif

When I'm done and it's got panels, I expect something like 20db of total noise. 30db max. Not bad for a phase cooler smile.gif and pretty good for a 24/7 setup if noise bugs you.

Gray
Edited by Gray Mole - 12/20/10 at 11:31pm
post #2 of 9
ok i am not seeing it did u reroute the condy into 4 sections or did run all 4 pumps into one condy useing one way flow control valves on each high side
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post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Oh yeah, that condensor is hard to 'read' in that pic, sorry.

Yeah, it's basically just 4 condensors now. It was way easier to fit a big one than a bunch of little ones.

The condensor fins are all that's tying them together, if you hacksawed it apart it'd just be 4 coolers in one case.

Makes it so they get tuned on their own, and you could use any 1, 2, 3 or all of them at any given time.

The big condensor fit so nice in there though, and it makes for 4 really nice sized condensors. I don't think I could've found 4 separate ones that big that would fit so well.

So no, no fancy valving or anything. It looks expensive, sure, but other than the case (which I made) and the evaps (which cost a lot, but there's no way around it) it's just 4 coolers, with no special or expensive stuff added on.

I've been trying to build some really cool and 'out there' coolers that are kind of different, but to keep it cheap. When they're done I sell 'em (can't use them all) and then it's easier to sell 'em cheap too smile.gif

That, and for anyone looking and thinking about building stuff, they can see the parts used and how it's done, and build it just as cheap as I can smile.gif which is also cool for those wanting to get into phase, or build slightly differently to what's out there.

Start adding flow control, oil control, etc etc and you're really pushing up the price tag and there's no need to if you plan it out smile.gif

Gray
post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mole;11721293 
Oh yeah, that condensor is hard to 'read' in that pic, sorry.

Yeah, it's basically just 4 condensors now. It was way easier to fit a big one than a bunch of little ones.

The condensor fins are all that's tying them together, if you hacksawed it apart it'd just be 4 coolers in one case.

Makes it so they get tuned on their own, and you could use any 1, 2, 3 or all of them at any given time.

The big condensor fit so nice in there though, and it makes for 4 really nice sized condensors. I don't think I could've found 4 separate ones that big that would fit so well.

So no, no fancy valving or anything. It looks expensive, sure, but other than the case (which I made) and the evaps (which cost a lot, but there's no way around it) it's just 4 coolers, with no special or expensive stuff added on.

I've been trying to build some really cool and 'out there' coolers that are kind of different, but to keep it cheap. When they're done I sell 'em (can't use them all) and then it's easier to sell 'em cheap too smile.gif

That, and for anyone looking and thinking about building stuff, they can see the parts used and how it's done, and build it just as cheap as I can smile.gif which is also cool for those wanting to get into phase, or build slightly differently to what's out there.

Start adding flow control, oil control, etc etc and you're really pushing up the price tag and there's no need to if you plan it out smile.gif

Gray
cool the one way valves i had an idea on useing them before on multy purpos system that has 2 pumps that can run 2 at once or one at a time the idea was to use a small and quiet reciprocating pump for the usual surfing and such and have a 1/2hp rotary on stand buy for benching both the high sides will have the one way valve so so the pumps can put pressure into the condy but pressure cant return back threw the high side to the pump if one pump is off i know this makes other problems such as one pump eventually getting all the oil and the need to have a crossflow to level the oil out and valve on the cross flow line as well

the idea is quiet surfing and everyday use and low power consumption and the ability to turn the 1/2hp on and give it the extra to bench and stress test
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post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I've been thinking about making up a test evap for that.

I saw a unit long time ago, running 2 1/10hp compressors on a chiller. Tiny, but they outperformed a 1/2hp compressor running a chiller biggrin.gif

So it seemed that 2 compressors running independently could do a very good job together. Being able to tune each on to run at a lower low side pressure seemed to be a winner.

On a chiller that's easier, but on an DD evap that's harder to install, so your method would work well.

If a 2 compartment evap were used, though, then each cooler would just be on it's own. Way cheaper to build, just need to make it up.

I'm looking at ordering some copper and matching tube, and just using a disc cutter to make a stepper out of it. With a 1mm blade, you could get a really nice, thin plated evap with 2 chambers. Harder to braze, but worth the work I think.

Then your 2 compressor, low load/high load setup would rock. No cost on valves and balancing, but the performance or power saving of the 2 compressor system.

I'll be getting some in the next couple months, so many projects on the go, I need to get through them, but I'll post when I do and show you the layout I'm after.

The option of using something more like a pair of 1/5hp compressors would be interesting though, each tuned to 175w maybe?

General use, -40 load operation, and high load use, still -40 load operation biggrin.gif with under 250w of total power used even with both running. I like that idea smile.gif

Gray
post #6 of 9
ok me and u are on the same page simple and cheap is how i like my toys

i live just outside of Toronto so if u build this duel evap deal i might buy one or 2 from u my system would be something new but a pita to plumb up and solve all the problems of simple physics but ur idea is the easy way out and i like it
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post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
Lolz I don't build it to sell it, but when I buy the junk to make it, I'll just buy a bit extra so I can make you some that would work smile.gif

By the time you chop up the pieces it's pretty cheap to get the actual size of these things. It's more the time to do the grinding, but even more so lapping it afterwards.

I'm working on a bench grinder to convert it to an evap flattening setup. If I can get that to work even close to getting them started then the last part of the lap job (dirty minds) is easy.

Been meaning to do it for ages though, just now I really need to biggrin.gif

and yeah, it's only the extra captube that's the cost then smile.gif and that's way less than the valves. I like a well made system, no doubt it's gotta work well and be safe, but I had to spend too much on it. If you can do the same for half as much smile.gif you got a winner biggrin.gif

Gray
post #8 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Mole;11722150 
Lolz I don't build it to sell it, but when I buy the junk to make it, I'll just buy a bit extra so I can make you some that would work smile.gif

By the time you chop up the pieces it's pretty cheap to get the actual size of these things. It's more the time to do the grinding, but even more so lapping it afterwards.

I'm working on a bench grinder to convert it to an evap flattening setup. If I can get that to work even close to getting them started then the last part of the lap job (dirty minds) is easy.

Been meaning to do it for ages though, just now I really need to biggrin.gif

and yeah, it's only the extra captube that's the cost then smile.gif and that's way less than the valves. I like a well made system, no doubt it's gotta work well and be safe, but I had to spend too much on it. If you can do the same for half as much smile.gif you got a winner biggrin.gif

Gray

i can tell u that all u would need is buffer and cut out some circles out of mdf some bolts and nuts to make the arbor in the mdf circle and each circle would have a different grit sand paper glued to it on both sides different grit ither side to make less circles or same grit on both sides to get more use out of each wheel a vise to clamp all the wheels down together during the glueing proses and presto
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post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
I actually have a bench sander here, belt and rotating thing all in one.

I just need to make a better plate for the rotating disc to make it more rigid and then the sanding discs would work well on it smile.gif

A fine stone would be better, but I don't know if I can get a good size for it or not. I'll have to check.

I'm actually playing with this cooler now, put the big cascade to the side.

I'm load testing the cpu evap and it's actually really good biggrin.gif

I'm getting around -20 at 300w, figure it's best to tune it for the high load for cpu, quad core should be no problem with that capacity.

Kind of answers the question of whether a fridge compressor will work though wink.gif

This is actually one of the smaller fridge compressors at 1/5hp. It's a small 1/5 too, some are larger displacement and still rated for 1/5 but this is pretty tiny. Nice fit in the case too smile.gif
img0301w.jpg
img0299t.jpg
img0298v.jpg

So on this unit, final result ends up at -19c at 300w, and -38 at 0w. I'll be doing some of the in between measurements pretty quick but it's quad ready and not too bad at all. It's also nearly silent, which is a real plus. I'd say under 20db easy, but probably over 15. When the case panels go on, it'll be very quiet.

So that's one gpu and the cpu, will be getting the testing done on those soon too. Maybe tonight if I can keep my eyes open biggrin.gif


Gray
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