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what happens when totl power draw exceeds psu rating? - Page 3

post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliancahillane View Post
edit: - Ive just seen your psu guru man, your clearly paraniod lol
And you're clearly ignorant and rude.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...ly-Deliver/534 "500W" fails at 265W
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=187 "1050W" fails at 550W
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...supply_review/ "650W" fails at 490W (probably a 300W unit)
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6714 "680W" fails at 250W
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=188 "750W" violates ATX spec at 450W



Power supplies aren't like other computer part industries. It's nearly completely unregulated. Many aren't UL certified, almost none are FCC certified, just "FCC compliant". There's no legal definition of what "wattage" is in regards to power supplies, so they're free to make numbers up as much as they want. Why go to the effort of desiging and building expensive high-end power supplies when you can take an old design from 1998, build it as cheap as possible so it can barely do 250W and has no filtering or surge protection, and stick any label on it, from 250W to 750W or beyond. People will still buy it, outside of enthusiast circles.

That's why this forum needs PSU gurus such as myself and Tator Tot, to distinguish the crap from the good. And you can't just go by brand--many "good" brands will frequently take a crappy power supply and overrate it and sell it using their brand name to mask the crap. Thermaltake and CoolerMaster are the biggest offenders here; Corsair is starting to get into that themselves.


If you're willing to blithely accept whatever is printed on the label, then I recommend the Echostar 680W, and may your computer rest in pieces.
post #22 of 32
Thread Starter 
haha im not even reading that post mate i was only winding up up. Dont call people naive when at the end of the day your just a nerd like the rest of us who getts info in the same manner that others do. Ive got a degree in business management and in part of it we study commercial law, you simply cannot market a product that falls short of a statement
    
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post #23 of 32
I just addressed that. They can and do, because there's no way to enforce it. We both may be nerds, but I'm the one who knows what the hell he's talking about in this case.
post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliancahillane View Post
Ive got a degree in business management and in part of it we study commercial law, you simply cannot market a product that falls short of a statement
I'm sorry but if that's the case, how do you explain the millions of shoddy PSUs sold to real customers like you and me? You may have a business degree but you don't sound like you know much about PSUs or the PSU market.
post #25 of 32
Thread Starter 
well then obviously people dont follow their cases up properly, hell if my psu says it can supply 650w of continuos power, and didnt , costing me a fortune in the process, id take the company to court unless they paid me for the damages.
    
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post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliancahillane View Post
well then obviously people dont follow their cases up properly, hell if my psu says it can supply 650w of continuos power, and didnt , costing me a fortune in the process, id take the company to court unless they paid me for the damages.
Non-enthusiast units never say "XXXW continuous".

Let's take a hypothetical power supply. It's a half bridge unit from the 90s made in a run-down factory in Shenzhen by a company with one half-trained electrical engineer on staff. The PSU has been cost-downed numerous times and is a barebones unit with no filtering or protections that can do 200W continuous output, 250W peak. The +12V current capacity is very low since it's made for older systems that draw primarily from the +5V and +3.3V. It's more a 150W in modern usage. The Chinese company rates the PSU for the peak input wattage, say 400W because it's so inefficient. Ebay company buys a lot of 1000 and asks for them to be beefed up to 500W. Chinese company nods, says they'll upgrade it, and simply changes the label. Ebay company then puts them in a box with "700" printed on it in large letters, but no W to indicate wattage--it's just a "model number". Then sells them for $15 a piece. When the PSU blows up the buyer doesn't pursue because "Oh, PSUs always do that" and it would be more expensive to file a lawsuit than to buy a new one. If they do pursue (one in a million cases), the ebay company may fly by night, or blame it on the manufacturer, who blames it on a manufacturing fault--if they can be contacted at all.


That's the worst case scenario, but I've seen all of the shady tactics mentioned employed at least once; most of them are ubiquitous.
post #27 of 32
Thread Starter 
yea i know what you mean, its the same thing for cheap car stereos, stating their peak wattage when realistically the thing would blow out if it sustained it..........im just referring to an enthusiast grade component. thanks for the input and ill be reading the links you posted. cheers guys and +1 rep.
    
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post #28 of 32
It will just shut off and nothing will happen... Or... This could happen:



Just FYI Phae is dead on here and you'd be a fool not to listen to him. He is 100% correct about the PSU market. There are no regulations and crappy PSU's get marketed well above what they are rated for all the time.

Good luck on taking them to court once your PC blows up though, let me know how that goes.

And Phae most likely doesn't get his information like everyone else. Most everyone else will go to google and try to find review sites of particular PSU's, half of which don't use the necessary hardware/tests to provide complete accurate results. He and Tator had to lay the law not long ago.
Edited by Shrimpykins - 12/23/10 at 10:08am
 
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post #29 of 32
This reminds me of a comic strip I saw once (can't find it now though.)

IT Nerd: (helping coworker) "Right, you just need to click system proper...."
Other person: "Um, I think i can handle it, I've got an MBA... "
It Nerd: "In that case, I'll speak extra slowly"


Phaedrus knows what he's talking about -- so does johnyguru etc etc etc.
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post #30 of 32
Good PSU's List - By My Book:

☼ Cooler Master.
☼ Corsair.
☼ Antec.
☼ XFX (I have one and it's awesome, but expensive. Mine cost $90 before $20 MIR).
☼ OCZ.
☼ PC Power & Cooling - Expensive.
☼ Rosewill.
☼ Thermaltake - Had a friend test one with large magnets and neon lamps.. not even a tenth of a volt fluctuation.

There are more, but these are the ones I have had personal experience with and they are worth checking out. Modular is always nice too - mine has it - good for cable management where airflow is concerned (It always should be). As a side note, make sure that your PSU is not the sole exaust fan your case uses, even if it is a low-end rig. If the only fan in your case is the one on the PSU, then no matter how good the PSU is, it will wear out faster due to being exposed to the majority of your machine's heat.

My general rule for all low-end machines is: two in-take, two out-take (Mine has 7, 3 of which are intake).

A recent customer came back in after having a PSU we sold him for only three months - it failed. He said it was defective and opened his case to show "indefensible proof". The only in/out fan was the PSU's SINGLE LOW RPM fan, and it was all filled with dust.

Yeah, I'd say that was indefensible proof too... After a different sort than he had in mind.

Hey Shrimpy! I think I have a computer just like that in my back yard!
Edited by XPD541 - 12/29/10 at 10:41pm
 
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