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[Wall Street Journal] ISP's to possibly charge per GB (Update: 12/23/2010) - Page 20  

post #191 of 255
Why should we have to pay for how much we use when they already charge us too much for the speed in which we access things? And the kicker is that we don't even get that speed most of the time let alone when we download certain things (I get throttled horrible for Steam usage and for Skype). They have the consumer by the balls and the lobbyst and congress in their pockets. Something seriously needs to be done because the US is falling behind comparable countries.
     
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post #192 of 255
i hit like 10 GB in like 2 days im constantly installing games from steam and streaming movies ,and gaming. my internet is in constant use for something
post #193 of 255
**** every ISP out there. Seriously. They're the ones standing in the way of progression. That is why America, supposedly the top dog nation, is pathetic in terms of network. They know that everything is going digital now. They know the average amount of bandwidth consumed is going up. Anybody with a brain knows it is a digital future. They're already raping us right now and they want to get into position for a full nelson that we will never escape.

They want you to believe the "oh but it's cheaper see you only pay for the stuff you use and yada yada yada." Sounds good right? NOT. No, they'll implement ridiculously small caps as Comcrap demostrated in Texas not to long ago. That's not all. As usage naturally goes up as everything moves to the internet, they will no doubt keep the same caps and drag their feet only when they're FORCED to raise the caps. And it WILL go up. Soon every video on youtube will be 1080p. Even phones shoot in huge resolutions. Content is naturally going to grow larger. It's the evolution of technology! I can see it from a mile away. It's so obvious what will happen. Then they can charge you those overage/rape-you fees that they love to charge cell phone users, even though it costs the ISP jack ****.

The telecos have enjoyed there monopolies so long that halting progression is now part of their business strategy. **** 'em. I wish I had saved the Comcrap graph that showed the load on their network. It was spiking up to 100% daily. Proof that they run their equipment on the ragged edge. And of course they do that. They don't want to upgrade and MOTHER OF GOD run the risk of having underutilized equipment. Of course Comcrap denies the picture but you damn well know it's true.

People say "it's just the internet." Well, it's obviously moving towards a necessity for not only work and school but also entertainment. It's also about principality. Some people don't like paying to be raped. My 6mbps connection has been hovering on and off around 90kbps for a month now. Yes that's not a typo. It's literally 1/6th of the rated speed. And it amazingly spikes back up AT 3 IN THE GOD DAMN MORNING. Drastic action is about to be taken. It pisses me off so much knowing that we can't do **** because they have a monopoly. The sooner the CEOs of ATT, Comcrap, Verizon, and Time Warner have heart attacks, die in a plane crash, get murdered, or just ******* die, the better. No wonder the CEO of ATT can jump from a teleco company, to an auto maker company. Shows how much they have to know about their own product. Who do you think ran GM into the ground?
post #194 of 255
@MotO: The reason though is that they are trying to "regulate" the industry which means they will use the government's current socialism tendency to create an unresponsive industry. Look what they've done to "net neutrality" and now this? This is what happens when there isn't competition in an industry. How many times does this happen before people learn that you want better you need to make competition possible.

Also, don't just blame the CEO as they are not the only one responsible. Include the board the and the other Cxxes. The CEO sucks because they are the one that the others can dump everything on when crap hits the fan.

So if we want better prices and service we need to bring in more competition in America's network industry.
     
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post #195 of 255
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjabelly View Post
This has little to do with the Net Neutrality ruling the FCC passed, and more to do with the ISP's seeing how far they can push their agenda and the pricing model as they deem most profitable.

It's not only the unwillingness to upgrade the existing "last mile" of infrastructure, but also their need to take a cut out of the digital content/cloud based future that is quickly emerging(Wired: Netflix Instant accounts for 20 Percent of peak US bandwith use.).

Those seeing Net Neutrality as a cause for all of this are missing the point.



Finalturismo, nothing against Senator Hutchison, but her article is more so pushing the agenda against Net Neutrality then it is clarifying the FCC's actual ruling. The FCC hasn't even released text in regards to the official ruling (7 days or more out.), so her "portal" analogy doesn't have any backing until that happens. The FCC doesn't have the financial ability to create such a resource at that either.

The belief of those against Net Neutrality in this regard, is that the government (Federal Communications Commission)should not have a hand in regulating how ISP's treat content. Therefore if say Hulu (NBC\\Comcast) were to create a service competing with Youtube(Google) in the realm video content publishing, then it would be legal for Comcast to throttle service to Youtube, and provide priority to Hulu based on this.

Obviously this isn't the case YET, and that is the point that Senator Hutchison is running on. That the ISP's have had no "issues" self regulating themselves thus far, and that this is an unnecessary "power grab" by the FCC which will in turn result in higher costs for the consumers.

She totally avoids the fact that this type of talk, and these type of issues have been circulating in the broadband industry for years. Comcast themselves have already settled lawsuits in regards to throttling and p2p transfers.

All of this is more of a fight to how much control the ISP's have in regards to the bandwidth they sell you. Should they have the ability to control what content you are provided with at what speed and accessibility, or should they simply be billing you for the service they provide?

The ISP's are using Net Neutrality as a guise for "threatening" higher costs to consumers. Sadly we'll all have to see how this issue and future legislation play out in the legislative body of our country.
Did you not read the quote from the Fcc chairmen..... Do you really want that guy in control of the ISPs. After a federal judge ruled the fcc has no authority over the internet. This guy isnt even elected......




Do you happen to see an Ethernet cable on the Fcc's Logo?
no you dont.... because they were created only to regulate the Radio, and Tv.......
see the antennas?

There is no text anywhere saying they have legal authority to do so.
Thats like me dressing up as a cop and imposing laws that dont exist.

Also did you know because of them you have to get a license to be on the air. They have to hand the power over to you, for you just to be able to get on the air.

Did you know Microsoft supports an internet license?
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/193602.asp
I mean cant yall see where will end up 20 years down the line or so.....
Edited by finalturismo - 12/24/10 at 10:00am
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post #196 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXjay247Xx View Post
Damn, I hope they dont bring this too the UK as this must suck.
I guess it depends on bt, they own the lines, and if they decide to charge the isps who use the line then everyone other than thoose lucky enough to have virgin fiber will have to pay the extra.
     
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post #197 of 255
I have att high speed bull **** and I barely get 100kb/s in their 6mb/s... Their modems suck ass and are hot to the touch whenever I'm gaming (I've returned these modems countless times and they all get hot)
post #198 of 255
Thread Starter 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:NEWS MEDIA CONTACT:
December 21, 2010Mark Wigfield, 202-418-0253
Email: mark.wigfield@fcc.gov

RELEASED BY FCC ON 12/21/2010


FCC ACTS TO PRESERVE INTERNET FREEDOM AND OPENNESS

Action Helps Ensure Robust Internet for Consumers, Innovation, Investment, Economic Prosperity
Washington, D.C. – The Federal Communications Commission today acted to preserve the Internet as an open network enabling consumer choice, freedom of expression, user control, competition and the freedom to innovate.
Chairman Genachowski voted for the Order; Commissioner Copps concurred and Commissioner Clyburn approved in part and concurred in part. Commissioners McDowell and Baker dissented.
In 2009, the FCC launched a public process to determine whether and what actions might be necessary to preserve the characteristics that have allowed the Internet to grow into an indispensable platform supporting our nation’s economy and civic life, and to foster continued investment in the physical networks that enable the Internet.
This process has made clear that the Internet has thrived because of its freedom and openness -- the absence of any gatekeeper blocking lawful uses of the network or picking winners and losers online. Consumers and innovators do not have to seek permission before they use the Internet to launch new technologies, start businesses, connect with friends, or share their views.
The Internet is a level playing field. Consumers can make their own choices about what applications and services to use and are free to decide what content they want to access, create, or share with others. This openness promotes competition. It also enables a self-reinforcing cycle of investment and innovation in which new uses of the network lead to increased adoption of broadband, which drives investment and improvements in the network itself, which in turn lead to further innovative uses of the network and further investment in content, applications, services, and devices. A core goal of this Order is to foster and accelerate this cycle of investment and innovation.
The record and the economic analysis demonstrate, however, that the openness of the Internet cannot be taken for granted, and that it faces real threats. Broadband providers have taken actions that endanger the Internet’s openness by blocking or degrading disfavored content and applications without disclosing their practices to consumers. Finally, broadband providers may have financial interests in services that may compete with online content and services. The record also establishes the widespread benefits of providing greater clarity in this area: clarity that the Internet’s openness will continue; that there is a forum and procedure for resolving alleged open Internet violations; and clarity that broadband providers may reasonably manage their networks. In light of these considerations, the FCC has long recognized that certain basic standards for broadband provider conduct are necessary to ensure the Internet’s continued openness.
The rules ensure that Internet openness will continue, providing greater certainty to consumers, innovators, investors, and broadband providers, including the flexibility providers need to effectively manage their networks. These rules were developed following a public rulemaking process that began in fall 2009 and included input from more than 100,000 individuals and organizations and several public workshops.The rules require all broadband providers to publicly disclose network management practices, restrict broadband providers from blocking Internet content and applications, and bar fixed broadband providers from engaging in unreasonable discrimination in transmitting lawful network traffic. The rules ensure much-needed transparency and continued Internet openness, while making clear that broadband providers can effectively manage their networks and respond to market demands
The Order builds on the bipartisan Internet Policy Statement the Commission adopted in 2005. It concludes that adopting open Internet protections to ensure the continued vitality of the Internet is needed in light of instances of broadband providers interfering with the Internet’s openness and natural incentives they face to exert gatekeeper control over Internet content, applications, and services.
Broadband Internet access services are clearly within the Commission’s jurisdiction. Congress charged the FCC with “regulating a field of enterprise the dominant characteristic of which was the rapid pace of its unfolding” and therefore intended to give the FCC sufficiently broad authority to address new issues that arise with respect to “fluid and dynamic” communications technologies. Congress did not limit its instructions to the Commission to one section of the Communications Act. Rather, it expressed its instructions in multiple sections which, viewed as a whole, provide broad authority to promote competition, investment, transparency, and an open Internet through the rules adopted today.
The provisions of the Communications the FCC relies on in enacting the open Internet rules include:
•Section 706 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996: This provision directs the FCC to “encourage the deployment on a reasonable and timely basis” of “advanced telecommunications capability” to all Americans It directs the Commission to undertake annual inquiries concerning the availability of advanced telecommunications capability to all Americans and requires that, if the Commission finds that such capability is not being deployed in a reasonable and timely fashion, it “shall take immediate action to accelerate deployment of such capability by removing barriers to infrastructure investment and by promoting competition in the telecommunications market,” under Section 706(b). In July 2010, the Commission concluded that broadband deployment to all Americans is not reasonable and timely and noted that as a consequence of that conclusion, Section 706(b) was triggered. Section 706(b) therefore provides express authority for the pro-investment, pro-competition rules adopted today.
•Title II of the Communications Act protects competition and consumers of telecommunications services. Over-the-top Internet voice services -- VoIP -- can develop as a competitor to traditional phone services. The FCC likewise safeguards interconnection between telephone customers and VoIP users.
•Title III of the Act gives the Commission authority to license spectrum used to provide fixed and mobile wireless services. Licenses must be subject to terms that serve the public interest. The Commission previously has required certain wireless licensees to comply with open Internet principles, as appropriate in the particular situation before it. The open Internet conditions adopted today likewise are necessary to advance the public interest in innovation and investment.
•Title VI of the Communications Act protects competition in video services. Internet video distribution is increasingly important to video competition. A cable or telephone company’s interference with the online transmission of programming by Direct Broadcast Satellite operators or stand-alone online video programming aggregators that may function as competitive alternatives to traditional Multichannel Video Programming Distributors would frustrate Congress’s stated goals in enacting Section 628 of the Act, which include promoting “competition and diversity in the multichannel video programming market.”

Following are key excerpts from the Report and Order adopted by the Commission to preserve the open Internet:
Rule 1: Transparency
A person engaged in the provision of broadband Internet access service shall publicly disclose accurate information regarding the network management practices, performance, and commercial terms of its broadband Internet access services sufficient for consumers to make informed choices regarding use of such services and for content, application, service, and device providers to develop, market, and maintain Internet offerings.
Rule 2: No Blocking
A person engaged in the provision of fixed broadband Internet access service, insofar as such person is so engaged, shall not block lawful content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices, subject to reasonable network management.
A person engaged in the provision of mobile broadband Internet access service, insofar as such person is so engaged, shall not block consumers from accessing lawful websites, subject to reasonable network management; nor shall such person block applications that compete with the provider’s voice or video telephony services, subject to reasonable network
Rule 3: No Unreasonable Discrimination
A person engaged in the provision of fixed broadband Internet access service, insofar as such person is so engaged, shall not unreasonably discriminate in transmitting lawful network traffic over a consumer’s broadband Internet access service. Reasonable network management shall not constitute unreasonable discrimination.
Select Definitions
Broadband Internet access service: A mass-market retail service by wire or radio that provides the capability to transmit data to and receive data from all or substantially all Internet endpoints, including any capabilities that are incidental to and enable the operation of the communications service, but excluding dial-up Internet access service. This term also encompasses any service that the Commission finds to be providing a functional equivalent of the service described in the previous sentence, or that is used to evade the protections set forth in this Part.
Reasonable network management. A network management practice is reasonable if it is appropriate and tailored to achieving a legitimate network management purpose, taking into account the particular network architecture and technology of the broadband Internet access service. Legitimate network management purposes include: ensuring network security and integrity, including by addressing traffic that is harmful to the network; addressing traffic that is unwanted by users (including by premise operators), such as by providing services or capabilities consistent with a user’s choices regarding parental controls or security capabilities; and by reducing or mitigating the effects of congestion on the network.
Pay for Priority Unlikely to Satisfy “No Unreasonable Discrimination” Rule
A commercial arrangement between a broadband provider and a third party to directly or indirectly favor some traffic over other traffic in the connection to a subscriber of the broadband provider (i.e., “pay for priority”) would raise significant cause for concern. First, pay for priority would represent a significant departure from historical and current practice. Since the beginning of the Internet, Internet access providers have typically not charged particular content or application providers fees to reach the providers’ consumer retail service subscribers or struck pay-for-priority deals, and the record does not contain evidence that U.S. broadband providers currently engage in such arrangements. Second this departure from longstanding norms could cause great harm to innovation and investment in and on the Internet. As discussed above, pay-for-priority arrangements could raise barriers to entry on the Internet by requiring fees from edge providers, as well as transaction costs arising from the need to reach agreements with one or more broadband providers to access a critical mass of potential users. Fees imposed on edge providers may be excessive because few edge providers have the ability to bargain for lesser fees, and because no broadband provider internalizes the full costs of reduced innovation and the exit of edge providers from the market. Third, pay-for-priority arrangements may particularly harm non-commercial end users, including individual bloggers, libraries, schools, advocacy organizations, and other speakers, especially those who communicate through video or other content sensitive to network congestion. Even open Internet skeptics acknowledge that pay for priority may disadvantage non-commercial uses of the network, which are typically less able to pay for priority, and for which the Internet is a uniquely important platform. Fourth, broadband providers that sought to offer pay-for-priority services would have an incentive to limit the quality of service provided to non-prioritized traffic. In light of each of these concerns, as a general matter, it is unlikely that pay for priority would satisfy the “no unreasonable discrimination” standard. The practice of a broadband Internet access service provider prioritizing its own content, applications, or services, or those of its affiliates, would raise the same significant concerns and would be subject to the same standards and considerations in evaluating reasonableness as third-party pay-for-priority arrangements.
Measured Steps for Mobile Broadband
Mobile broadband presents special considerations that suggest differences in how and when open Internet protections should apply. Mobile broadband is an earlier-stage platform than fixed broadband, and it is rapidly evolving. For most of the history of the Internet, access has been predominantly through fixed platforms -- first dial-up, then cable modem and DSL services. As of a few years ago, most consumers used their mobile phones primarily to make phone calls and send text messages, and most mobile providers offered Internet access only via “walled gardens” or stripped down websites. Today, however, mobile broadband is an important Internet access platform that is helping drive broadband adoption, and data usage is growing rapidly. The mobile ecosystem is experiencing very rapid innovation and change, including an expanding array of smartphones, aircard modems, and other devices that allow mobile broadband providers to enable Internet access; the emergence and rapid growth of dedicated-purpose mobile devices like e-readers; the development of mobile application (“app”) stores and hundreds of thousands of mobile apps; and the evolution of new business models for mobile broadband providers, including usage-based pricing.
Moreover, most consumers have more choices for mobile broadband than for fixed broadband. Mobile broadband speeds, capacity, and penetration are typically much lower than for fixed broadband, though some providers have begun offering 4G service that will enable offerings with higher speeds and capacity and lower latency than previous generations of mobile service. In addition, existing mobile networks present operational constraints that fixed broadband networks do not typically encounter. This puts greater pressure on the concept of “reasonable network management” for mobile providers, and creates additional challenges in applying a broader set of rules to mobile at this time. Further, we recognize that there have been meaningful recent moves toward openness, including the introduction of open operating systems like Android. In addition, we anticipate soon seeing the effects on the market of the openness conditions we imposed on mobile providers that operate on upper 700 MHz C-Block spectrum, which includes Verizon Wireless, one of the largest mobile wireless carriers in the U.S.
In light of these considerations, we conclude it is appropriate to take measured steps at this time to protect the openness of the Internet when accessed through mobile broadband
Specialized Services
In the Open Internet NPRM, the Commission recognized that broadband providers offer services that share capacity with broadband Internet access service over providers’ last-mile facilities, and may develop and offer other such services in the future. These “specialized services,” such as some broadband providers’ existing facilities-based VoIP and Internet Protocol-video offerings, differ from broadband Internet access service and may drive additional private investment in broadband networks and provide consumers valued services, supplementing the benefits of the open Internet. At the same time, specialized services may raise concerns regarding bypassing open Internet protections, supplanting the open Internet, and enabling anti competitive conduct. We note also that our rules define broadband Internet access service to encompass “any service that the Commission finds to be providing a functional equivalent of [broadband Internet access service], or that is used to evade the protections set forth in these rules.”
We will closely monitor the robustness and affordability of broadband Internet access services, with a particular focus on any signs that specialized services are in any way retarding the growth of or constricting capacity available for broadband Internet access service. We fully expect that broadband providers will increase capacity offered for broadband Internet access service if they expand network capacity to accommodate specialized services. We would be concerned if capacity for broadband Internet access service did not keep pace. We also expect broadband providers to disclose information about specialized services’ impact, if any, on last-mile capacity available for, and the performance of, broadband Internet access service. We may consider additional disclosure requirements in this area in our related proceeding regarding consumer transparency and disclosure. We would also be concerned by any marketing, advertising, or other messaging by broadband providers suggesting that one or more specialized services, taken alone or together, and not provided in accordance with our open Internet rules, is “Internet” service or a substitute for broadband Internet access service. Finally, we will monitor the potential for anti competitive or otherwise harmful effects from specialized services, including from any arrangements a broadband provider may seek to enter into with third parties to offer such services. The Open Internet Advisory Committee will aid us in monitoring these issues.
Action by the Commission December 21, 2010, by Report and Order (FCC 10-201). Chairman Genachowski approving, Commissioner Clyburn approving in part and concurring in part; Commissioner Copps concurring, Commissioners’ McDowell and Baker dissenting. Separate statements issued by Chairman Genachowski, Commissioners’ Copps, McDowell, Clyburn, and Baker.


--FCC--

News about the Federal Communications Commission can also be found
on the Commission’s website www.fcc.gov




This is what the FCC officially released on their website. Notice how lawful content is everywhere in document, but there is no definition of lawful content....

Also "Reason Network Management"
Edited by finalturismo - 12/24/10 at 10:41am
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post #199 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalturismo View Post
Did you not read the quote from the Fcc chairmen..... Do you really want that guy in control of the ISPs. After a federal judge ruled the fcc has no authority over the internet. This guy isnt even elected......
I saw the quote, he didn't state that ISP's should move to a per gb plan, or that they should charge by the gb at all. That they should consider charging for the traffic they provide instead of the content itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalturismo View Post


Do you happen to see an Ethernet cable on the Fcc's Logo?
no you dont.... because they were created only to regulate the Radio, and Tv.......
see the antennas?
The FCC was established in 1934 obviously the logo wouldn't contain an Ethernet cable, nor would that make any logical sense. I don't see a Rotary or Pulse based phone either, that doesn't mean that the FCC doesn't regulate "Telecommunications" (Which they were created to do, and which includes Internet in the modern era.) within the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalturismo View Post
Also did you know because of them you have to get a license to be on the air. They have to hand the power over to you, for you just to be able to get on the air.
What is wrong with that? That is only for broadcast networks and their "leasing" of space within the FM or Broadcast Television band. If there wasn't any regulation in regards to the FM band, wireless, cellular, and others in the RF spectrum, then ANYONE would have free reign to do whatever they wanted on any frequency. All of your viable services rely on these "standards" and "regulations".

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalturismo View Post
Did you know Microsoft supports an internet license?
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/193602.asp
I mean cant yall see where will end up 20 years down the line or so.....
Uhh Craig Mundie of Microsoft proposed an "internet license", thats not Microsoft saying that publicly support such an initiative. Also where does Microsoft translate in to the FCC's opinion?

If anything the FCC didn't go far enough in defining Net Neutrality, at least not to the extent that it's supporters have proposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalturismo View Post
This is what the FCC officially released on their website. Notice how lawful content is everywhere in document, but there is no definition of lawful content....

Also "Reason Network Management"
There are law's within the United States, am I not right? The FCC hasn't defined "lawful content" because they aren't a law making body, their a regulatory body for Radio Frequencies and Cable within the United States. The lawful content they are referring to is content that is acceptable under the current set of laws that exist.

Unless I'm missing something and they have defined it differently anywhere within that document?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalturismo View Post
Also "Reason Network Management"
ISP's have to have the ability to maintain an amount of reasonable network management to ensure quality of service and security of their networks.
Edited by ninjabelly - 12/24/10 at 11:00am
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post #200 of 255
If this is an accepted plan, Comcast is going to crap bricks of joy.
Thank God I live in the city with the fastest internet in the world, changing over this summer =D.
High bandwidth, I won't have to worry about this >=D
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [Wall Street Journal] ISP's to possibly charge per GB (Update: 12/23/2010)