Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Hard Drives & Storage › SSD › Want an SSD, need advice
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Want an SSD, need advice - Page 2

post #11 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisbodds View Post


So the 4K speeds are measured in IOPS?

And what's an example of when you would use sequential and 4K speeds?
You would use sequential when loading a game. You would use 4K when loading cached web pages I believe.
post #12 of 31
I've only just begun to get to grips with this stuff myself, but as I understand it:

4K speeds are measured like any other speed, usually through benchmarks. Not much to do with IOPs AFAIK.

Copy/pasting a 20GB single file or a bunch of 1GB files to somewhere else on the drive, would be a situation where you would probably see close to a drives max quoted sequential write speed. The best example of a sequential read that I can think of would be opening hundreds of super high resolution images at once (images that are like 10MB+ each)

4KB read speeds are probably the most important figure when dealing with SSDs as an OS will usually be carrying out many small file reads/writes at the same time when you ask it to do something. If I'm not mistaken the same applies for how most general purpose applications open - they require many small filesize reads. General OS/App usage would therefore be good examples of when 4K read speeds are used.
post #13 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by meticadpa View Post
You should probably get a new keyboard dude, your return key appears to be activating itself randomly. Lot of good information there though.

OP JUST SENT ME THAT
I had to copy and past it from another site I am on so the paragraphs are kinda funky when you copy it :/ Sorry
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisbodds View Post
TL;DR



So I'mma get the Vertex then.
Yea, I am confused here..the whole article was basically how and why the C300 is better than sandforce drives AKA Vertex for one, yet you are going to get the Vertex? lol
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttnose View Post
I've only just begun to get to grips with this stuff myself, but as I understand it:

4K speeds are measured like any other speed, usually through benchmarks. Not much to do with IOPs AFAIK.

Copy/pasting a 20GB single file or a bunch of 1GB files to somewhere else on the drive, would be a situation where you would probably see close to a drives max quoted sequential write speed. The best example of a sequential read that I can think of would be opening hundreds of super high resolution images at once (images that are like 10MB+ each)

4KB read speeds are probably the most important figure when dealing with SSDs as an OS will usually be carrying out many small file reads/writes at the same time when you ask it to do something. If I'm not mistaken the same applies for how most general purpose applications open - they require many small filesize reads. General OS/App usage would therefore be good examples of when 4K read speeds are used.



Correct, the sequential are big reads/writes like copying a massive single file or what not and the 4k are what you mentioned as well. Most programs are made up of smaller "programs". Alot of times they are in .DLL form. Yes, for OS usage 4k is more important.

Can people please take note of what buttnose (*** ) said!
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #16 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisbodds View Post
So I'mma get the Vertex then.
post #17 of 31
Check out the Corsair Force F40's...great bang for buck.

http://www.techreaction.net/2010/12/...rce-f40-raid0/
post #18 of 31
The Corsair are pretty much the same as the Vertex 2 etc. They are all sandforce drives
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Ahh!
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 D0 4.11 GHz Asus P6T Sapphire HD 5770 1GB Corsair DDR3 1600 6GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
C300 128GB | WD Green 1TB Win 7 Ulimate 64-Bit Samsung 2770H Corsair 650HX 
Case
CM Sniper Black Edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus20895 View Post
I swear, I am going to make a post one of these days. The C300 is better.

OCZ, G. Skill, Corsair, ADATA, Muskin, OWZ and Patriot ..maybe more brands..are all the same SSD essential. They all have the Sandforce controller which really what determines the performance of the SSD. So they are the same thing with a different sticker more or less. The Sandforce drives are the 2nd best SSD out there right now. The best drive out there currently is the Crucial C300. It uses a Marvel controller. One thing that is different with the C300 and not with the Sandforce drives is that the IOPS and the write speed differ with capacity. The higher capacity the more IOPS and faster write speed you have with the C300.


Now, lets talk about speeds.
You have the advertised speeds which are sequential speeds. These are reads/writes that reach the speeds when you are reading/writing big files and advertisers use them since it is the fastest the SSD will go. The next speed are called the 4k speeds. These are much slower thant he sequential speeds, but the most important since your OS uses these reads/writes far more often than the sequential speeds. To be honest, the sequential speeds or really the speeds that are on the box are quite misleading.



The sequential speeds on the sandforce drives are faster than the C300, but that
is a pointless measurement when you will rarely use sequential speeds.
People who buy SSDs do not use these specific read/writes often at all.
What counts when picking out a SSD is the 4k read/writes and that is
where the C300 is superior than the sandforce. The 4k speeds are the
actual read/writes that people will use on an almost minute basis with
their SSDs unlike sequential read/writes which they will use far less
often.


The 4k speeds for any drive do not exceed Sata3G speeds and therefor it
is not needed to use a Sata6G interface with the C300. Yes, the C300
will get to Sata6g speeds, but that is only for sequential reads which I
mentioned earlier that users do not use sequential read/writes even
close to the amount of 4k writes which are far more used and far more
important.


The C300 is also SATA6G compliant, but to be honest, there isn't really a terrific SATA6G controller and in most cases the 4k speeds are slower when using a Sata6G
interface/controller simply because none have been well written/coded
etc. So while the Sata6G is nice it is not needed to have at all to get
the benefit of the C300 over the sandforce drives. It is just a bonus. Where the C300 dominates is at the 4k speeds!


There are hard drives out there that have a read/write speed over
100MB/s and now we are talking about SSDs having read/write speed of around
300MB/s. Okay, cool 3 times as fast. These are all sequential speeds
mind you which you will once again..rarely use.


When it really gets fun is when you are talking about the random 4k
speeds and what actually counts since you use those far more often. A
hard drive might reach 1MB/s read/write, but on the other hand the
sandforce reaches 20-25MB/s and the C300 reaches 28-3XMB/s. Now, that is
around 30 times faster than the traditional hard drive. While the C300
is just 5 or so MB/s faster than the sandforce you have got to remember
that this is being done many, many times over and over which broadens the speed difference.


This is why the C300 and in general SSDs are faster than hard drives
among other things such as IOPS and access time, but to wrap it all up
the C300 is faster than the Sandforce drives where it counts and that is the 4k read/writes.


I would rather have a SSD that is slower on sequential speeds that I
don't use and be faster than 4k which is something that I will use all
the time. We can even go into more detail about how sandforce compresses
data and how it slows it down drastically, but I wont get into that for
the time being.


So, stop telling people oh, the OCZ vertex has a speed of 285MB/s read and 275MB/s write where the C300 64GB has only 70MB/s write. That's fine and dandy, but I dont care about the sequential speeds since I rarely use those. I can about the 4k speeds and the C300 beats the Sandforce hands down.


I mentioned all of this because frankly, I am tired of putting just looking at the advertised speeds and immediately conclude that this drive is better than that drive. It isn't 100% their fault since the companies are kinda misleading when mentioned speeds that SSDs don't use often, but then again do some research.



I hope I have given some people advice and taught people to take the sequential speeds/advertised speeds with a grain of salt,pepper,cinnamon,spice and everything nice and do some research and learn the 4k speeds and how they effect/affect??? the total performance of the SSD.
Well said. it took me couple of minutes to read it but it was worth it to learn alot more about ssds. rep
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k ASUS P8P67 PRO Sapphire HD6870 Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB 1600-9-9-9-24-1.5v 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Crucial M4 64GB SSD Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB LG DVD 22x Burner Windows 7 Pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung SyncMaster T24 Microsft Siderwinder X6 Corsair AX 750W Corsair 600T 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Deathadder Razer Speed Control 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k ASUS P8P67 PRO Sapphire HD6870 Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB 1600-9-9-9-24-1.5v 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Crucial M4 64GB SSD Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB LG DVD 22x Burner Windows 7 Pro 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung SyncMaster T24 Microsft Siderwinder X6 Corsair AX 750W Corsair 600T 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Deathadder Razer Speed Control 
  hide details  
Reply
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttnose View Post
I've only just begun to get to grips with this stuff myself, but as I understand it:

4K speeds are measured like any other speed, usually through benchmarks. Not much to do with IOPs AFAIK.

Copy/pasting a 20GB single file or a bunch of 1GB files to somewhere else on the drive, would be a situation where you would probably see close to a drives max quoted sequential write speed. The best example of a sequential read that I can think of would be opening hundreds of super high resolution images at once (images that are like 10MB+ each)

4KB read speeds are probably the most important figure when dealing with SSDs as an OS will usually be carrying out many small file reads/writes at the same time when you ask it to do something. If I'm not mistaken the same applies for how most general purpose applications open - they require many small filesize reads. General OS/App usage would therefore be good examples of when 4K read speeds are used.
Oh ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus20895 View Post
Yea, I am confused here..the whole article was basically how and why the C300 is better than sandforce drives AKA Vertex for one, yet you are going to get the Vertex? lol
Lol, I was joking. But I'm still not sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus20895 View Post



Correct, the sequential are big reads/writes like copying a massive single file or what not and the 4k are what you mentioned as well. Most programs are made up of smaller "programs". Alot of times they are in .DLL form. Yes, for OS usage 4k is more important.

Can people please take note of what buttnose (*** ) said!
Right, now I can see why 4K usage will be a lot more important for an SSD. All the little system files and files which go with programs will load quicker in this case.

Also, bear in mind I am only talking about the 60-64GB here. I think you knew this already, just mentioning it again though.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: SSD
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Hard Drives & Storage › SSD › Want an SSD, need advice