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post #41 of 61
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Well I left one fact out of my PC specs. My case is getting insufficient air cooling for more overclocking.

I originally bought an XClio A380 because I did not know much about cases or brands, and thought the big fans on the case would be plenty, but over time the top one, and the side one seem to have stopped working and since they are much larger than normal PC fans, Im not sure where to replace them at.

So here is what Im thinking.

Im probably gonna get the Antec 1200 case with the 750watt powersupply for $260 off of newegg that will solve both the insufficient cooling problem (and much easier to replace fans) and get me a new P/S. While Im replacing every PC component in the new case I can clean and dust off everything, and put on some new thermal paste, and possibly add 2 more sticks 2x2 DDR2 1000 gskill RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129063
Edited by Lezbianseagull - 12/23/10 at 7:55pm
post #42 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lezbianseagull View Post
Well I left one fact out of my PC specs. My case is getting insufficient air cooling for more overclocking.

I originally bought an XClio A380 because I did not know much about cases or brands, and thought the big fans on the case would be plenty, but over time the top one, and the side one seem to have stopped working and since they are much larger than normal PC fans, Im not sure where to replace them at.

So here is what Im thinking.

Im probably gonna get the Antec 1200 case with the 750watt powersupply for $260 off of newegg that will solve both the insufficient cooling problem (and much easier to replace fans) and get me a new P/S. While Im replacing every PC component in the new case I can clean and dust off everything, and put on some new thermal paste, and possibly add 2 more sticks 2x2 DDR2 1000 gskill RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129063
Let's see the model of the PSU as well.
    
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post #43 of 61
You'll be lucky if that game ever comes out.
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post #44 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenottawa View Post
You'll be lucky if that game ever comes out.
Maybe so but when it does I want to be prepared. Ive collected $1500 in flight sim equipment and the 28" monitor is so I can read the gauges without having to squint.

PSU brand is unknown other than its a 750w and I assume its an Antec because its coming with an Antec case, probably this one base on price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371026
post #45 of 61
Wow ... a lot of misinformation on this thread.

First off, the power requirements listed on the box of the card are for you whole system, and have a considerable margin for error. If the card maker says you need a 600W PSU for the card, then any reasonably decent 600W PSU is going to be plenty.

I promise you that a 700W CM Extreme Power is plenty for *any* single card. It's not the most awesome PSU on the market or anything (i.e. it's probably closer to what most companies would call a 650W unit), but you're not going to see ANY difference upgrading to a 750W higher quality unit with any single card setup. NONE. There is NO benefit to having more power than what you actually need.

The only reason that PSU efficiency rating matters is in terms of your electricity usage. It has NOTHING to do with the actual performance of the unit. It's just a calculation of the ratio between the DC power being provided by the PSU / the amount of AC power being pulled from the wall.

Power supplies are rated on the DC power they can provide to your components ... and the efficiency just speaks to how much juice gets pulled out of the wall in so doing. An efficient PSU is nice, but it really doesn't mean it's better in any other regard other than small differences in power consumption. Efficiency is NOT part of the calculation of how much DC power a PSU can provide to your components. There's lots of great PSU's that aren't especially efficient ... some of the best ones aren't that efficient, actually (like Antec Signature series).

4GB of ram is PLENTY of RAM for gaming, EVEN with a 32-bit OS which cuts down a little on your available ram. Games rarely use more than 1GB, and the OS itself uses around a gig. Something to keep in mind about ram is that you either have ENOUGH, in which case every thing is fine, or you don't, in which case there could be issues. Having more than you need provides ZERO benefit vs. having the exact amount that you need, IOW.

And the actual RAM performance (speed, timing, etc) has VERY LITTLE effect on your gaming experience. Ever.

If there's some new game coming out that says it's going to need a ton of RAM, then maybe the situation will change with that particular game, but if I were you I'd wait to add more ram until you see how it actually runs on 4GB.

AFA your proc goes, yes there will be scenarios where your CPU will act as a limiting factor to performance. So does mine, actually. The way you get rid of a CPU bottleneck though is to increase the visual quality of the game/test you're running so it's not running as fast, so the CPU has less trouble keeping up. It's unlikely that your CPU will ever be a major factor in terms of your 'max playable settings' in any game, or slow your perf down to the point of unplayability.

If I were you I'd grab either a 570 or 580, depending on budget, and see how this new game runs when it comes out on you're existing gear, because it's entirely possibly you won't 'need' anything else with your existing setup, IMHO. You should be able to drop in a 570/580 and get WAY better performance in games, and be able to turn settings way up. Everythign else is pretty decent still in your rig. Will you break any benchmark records? No. Will you get a great playing experience at high settings ... yes.

The only other upgrade I could logically see you needing besides GPU is to step up to a quad like a q9400 or so, and then overclocking it. Those don't require uber-fancy coolers or awesome airflow in order to be able to hit pretty great clocks, either. And if you happen to have 64-bit WIndows, you might as well throw it on ... I doubt you'll see any big difference from it 99% of the time, but it's nice to be able to actually use all the RAM you do physically have in those very rare instances that you'd need it.
Edited by brettjv - 12/24/10 at 10:50am
    
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post #46 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lezbianseagull View Post
Maybe so but when it does I want to be prepared. Ive collected $1500 in flight sim equipment and the 28" monitor is so I can read the gauges without having to squint.

PSU brand is unknown other than its a 750w and I assume its an Antec because its coming with an Antec case, probably this one base on price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371026
Don't assume that. I'd call Newegg to confirm. Best not to leave it to chance. Its a nice chunk of change. The Antec 1200 normally just comes by itself and not with a power supply. So it might be Newegg sticking the power supply in there, not Antec.

Even a good 750 will narrowly cover what you want to do with the system. Remember how the amp requirement for the GTX 580 for the 12 volt rail is 46 amps? That is equal to 550 watts. Just for the one video card.

If it really is an Antec PSU, you should be in good shape though.
    
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post #47 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic_Lizard View Post
Don't assume that. I'd call Newegg to confirm. Best not to leave it to chance. Its a nice chunk of change. The Antec 1200 normally just comes by itself and not with a power supply. So it might be Newegg sticking the power supply in there, not Antec.

Even a good 750 will narrowly cover what you want to do with the system. Remember how the amp requirement for the GTX 580 for the 12 volt rail is 46 amps? That is equal to 550 watts. Just for the one video card.

If it really is an Antec PSU, you should be in good shape though.
Dude, seriously, you need to stop giving out wrong information. A GTX580 DOES NOT require 46A of power. That rating is for the whole system with the card in it.

A 700W Extreme Power unit is PLENTY for any single card setup.
    
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post #48 of 61
I am not trying to be rude, but some people need to do slightly more research before posting and they need to provide sources to substantiate their opinions. Otherwise their comments can be unproductive and misleading to those who do not know any better. I've done work with solid state electronics and have repaired motherboards and power supplies. I have at least basic rudimentary knowledge of how these things work.
Please read the following article:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/181

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
A 700W CM Extreme Power is plenty for any single card. It's not the most awesome PSU on the market or anything (i.e. it's probably closer to what most companies would call a 650W unit), but you're not going to see ANY difference upgrading to a 750W higher quality unit with any single card setup.
The ratings for that brand's video cards have not been stellar (nor were they terrible). Links were posted. Some generic 700 power supplies are actually 450 watt power supplies with 700 watt power supply stickers on them. SO, NO, ALL 700 WATT POWER SUPPLIES ARE NOT THE SAME. PERIOD. Many hardware sites have discovered this and revealed it of certain models of their PSUs. Build quality does very. Please understand that when a minimum requirement for a video card on the 12 volt rail is 46 amps, that mathematically equals 550 watts for the single card alone. (AND NO, FOR THE LITERAL MINDED, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE CARD ACTUALLY USES 550 WATTS!! IT IS A SAFE THRESHOLD.)

Edit (FURTHER EXPLANATION OF MY POINT - NOT A REDACTION): THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE GTX 580, GTX 295, and GTX 480 are all 46 amps on the 12 volt rail. However, the GTX 295 requires a 680 watt power supply, and the 480 and 580 only require a 600 watt power supply. This is because they are referring to the 12 volt rail alone when they refer to the 46 amps. Otherwise the total amperage requirement would be the same for all cards. Now the actual cards actually use different amps and less than 46. But the 46 amps is the SAFE RATING. The fact is that the GTX 295 dual PCB uses the most amps, followed by the 480, followed by the 580 at about 32 amps. But the 46 amps gives you some cushion in due to many factors that can effect efficiency reducing the amps left available to the power supply.

To make this symple:
GTX 295 uses 416 watts on a load, but has a 46 amp requirement (requires 680 watt PSU)
GTX 480 uses about 370 watts on a load, but has a 46 amp requirement (requires 600 watt PSU)
GTX 580 uses about 363 watts on a load, but has a 46 amp requirement (requires 600 watt PSU)
IF THE 46 AMP RATING REFERRED TO THE ENTIRE SYSTEM (WITH GOD KNOWS WHAT CPU AND HOW MANY DRIVES) THEY WOULD ALL REQUIRE THE SAME 550 WATT POWER SUPPLY. NOTICE THAT THEY DO NOT.

In synthetic benchmarks it gets a little heavier.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...0_sli_review/7

Notice the power supply recommended for these cards by the author.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
The only reason that PSU efficiency rating matters is in terms of your electricity usage. It has NOTHING to do with the actual performance of the unit.
I really don't need to comment here. This like saying the way a combustion engine automobile uses gasoline has nothing to do with how fast it drives. The reason 80 Plus Certified is a big deal is not related to people wanting low electric bills (although this is an additional benefit of efficiency) it is related to wanting stable and strong power for the 12 volt rail with little rippling.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page1.html
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/181

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
So, power supplies are rated on the DC power they can provide to your components ... and the efficiency just speaks to how much juice gets pulled out of the wall in so doing.
See comments above. These things are related to one another, they are not mutually exclusive.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/181
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page1.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
4GB of ram is PLENTY of RAM for gaming, EVEN with a 32-bit OS which cuts down a little on your available ram.
This was once true, but is no longer the case with the high resolutions being used with gaming (2560x1600). The way that windows accesses memory comes into play. There is an outdated article on Tom's Hardware that states that video card memory doesn't matter, but in the benchmarks of the article you can clearly see that for resolutions af 2560x1600, it undoubtedly does. This goes doubly when anti-aliasing is enabled on these resolutions.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...70,2428-5.html
Edited by Majestic_Lizard - 12/24/10 at 4:47pm
    
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post #49 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Dude, seriously, you need to stop giving out wrong information. A GTX580 DOES NOT require 46A of power. That rating is for the whole system with the card in it.
A 700W Extreme Power unit is PLENTY for any single card setup.
I have tried to be polite and patient. This individual is the one giving out VERY WRONG information.
1) Some 700 watt power supplies DO NOT have adequate AMPS on their rails.
2) Reviews of power supplies often reveal that specifications given for power supplies are not accurate and the power supplies and their manufacturers should be researched before purchasing.
3) "A GTX580 DOES NOT require 46A of power. That rating is for the whole system with the card in it."
I didn't say the GTX580 used 46A of power, did I? I said that was what the minimum requirement of the manufacturer. I said 46A equals 550 watts of power. If this person had read one of my posts in another thread you would see that the GTX580 uses 363 watts.

The manufacturer's requirement for a GTX480 is, at the minimum, a 600 watt power supply with 46 amps on the 12 volt rail. It doesn't say 46 amps for the entire system, it says 46 amps for the 12 volt rail. 46 amps does mathematically equal about 550 watts, NOT 600 watts. Meanwhile, the GTX295, which also has a 46 amp rating also does not require a 550 watt power supply, it requires a 680 watt power supply. Both have 46 amp rating, but both have different total wattage requirements WELL ABOVE 46 AMPS (550 WATTS).


In one of my OWN COMPUTERS I am running a GTX295 on a 700 watt power supply! But my 700 watt is a corsair with a 56 amp rail!; it ain't a Rockefish from Best Buy! The GTX295 dual PCB uses significantly more power than the 580. I AM NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T RUN A 580 on a 700 WATT PSU! I NEVER SAID THAT. I AM SAYING IT HAS TO BE A HIGH QUALITY ONE AND THAT IT CAN'T BE CRAP! THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING! And I'm sorry but some of Coolermaster's PSU's ARE CRAP. Most are "okay" but I would not use one of this brand on a system that had any value to me.
Edited by Majestic_Lizard - 12/24/10 at 12:01pm
    
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post #50 of 61
Thread Starter 
Im confused, so I dont need a new Powersupply and I dont need 2x2 more gigs of ram?

Im not totally into benchmarking, but I would like to improve my benchmarking score and get rid of things bottlenecking this GPU Im lookin to spend $550 on, and someone claimed my DDR2 1000 Gskill 2x2 ram would bottle neck it, is that false now? Because my MoBo CAN handle 8 gigs of ram.

Im willing to switch O/S to my other partition on my Harddrive with 64-bit Windows-7 (as I already own it) to play my flight simulator game if it means I can utilize more ram than 32-bit Windows Vista, but if I can get by with just a GPU and a case and 4 gigs of ram with an actual working fans like the Antec 1200, I may just try those 2 upgrades and see if I can play the game on 4 gigs of ram and the cooler master P/S.

On the other hand a 750watt Antec P/S on new egg seems to go for about $89, is that the one I should be looking at, or something better?
Edited by Lezbianseagull - 12/24/10 at 1:14pm
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