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Corsair TX line changed in secret - Page 12

post #111 of 209
Oh goodie.

Question:
Why the change from CX400 to CX430?
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post #112 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post
Making popcorn, getting ready for the show...............
now now CorsairGeorge was kind enough to join OCN to address this subject, let the man talk before we condemn Corsair like XFX.
post #113 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux View Post
now now CorsairGeorge was kind enough to join OCN to address this subject, let the man talk before we condemn Corsair like XFX.
Oh I'm not taking any sides, this will turn out to be an interesting thread to watch, as there are not allot of vendor reps that pop in on these threads. Education on PSUs will happen, I know this.
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post #114 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sLowEnd View Post
Oh goodie.

Question:
Why the change from CX400 to CX430?
Because the CX400 wasn't profitable, didn't have any real differentiation from the VX450 aside from wattage and looks, and was very expensive for a 400W product.
post #115 of 209
So, let's be clear then shall we? Any TX with the changed platform will show as TX-C on the model number sticker on the PSU? Do they come with different packaging in any way?
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post #116 of 209
Thread Starter 
Sorry Redbeard, but it appeared that you had disappeared, hadn't heard from you for a while. I also had limited access to the internet for the past week and JonnyGURU was particularly slow, so I haven't visited.

I've searched high and low and can find no -C variants of the TX line anywhere on retail shelves. All are marked "CMPSU-***TX", with no C, and it looks like revised PSHII variants are appearing in the old packaging. The new versions should at least have been sent out for review, which they haven't.

And maybe I'm assuming things, but the 80PLUS reports for the "TXv2s" appear a lot more like PSHII than anything from SeaSonic.


And we asked about the CX Builder series, and never heard anything from any Corsair representative. I think I even PM'd you; I'm not sure, I'll check (EDIT: I checked, I think that was before I started saving sent messages on JG. It might be in your inbox). But we heard almost nothing about the CX series; and the new CX series are not something I ever expected to see from Corsair. I initially expected a decent DSAII 430W; then a decent DSAII 380W; now I see an extremely cost-down DSAII unit rated at a hair above room temperature that might just scrape by at 380W. It looks like something from Thermaltake's TR2 line, not a Corsair product.


Maybe there's a good explanation for all of this; but for the past several months Corsair has been seriously scaring me. After the disappointment of the CX series and the complete silence in response, was it unreasonable to assume the worst about the TX line?
Edited by Phaedrus2129 - 12/27/10 at 11:41am
post #117 of 209
This will be an interesting discussion
Edited by reflex99 - 12/27/10 at 11:41am
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post #118 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
Sorry Redbeard, but it appeared that you had disappeared, hadn't heard from you for a while. I also had limited access to the internet for the past week and JonnyGURU was particularly slow, so I haven't visited.


I've searched high and low and can find no -C variants of the TX line anywhere on retail shelves. All are marked "CMPSU-***TX", with no C, and it looks like revised PSHII variants are appearing in the old packaging. The new versions should at least have been sent out for review, which they haven't.
Not sure on whether it's on the packaging or not, I'll make an inquiry to our PSU product manager. We're not sending the -Cs out for review because they're not really new products. They're basically just out there to make sure we still have power supplies in stores, as the older designs didn't scale the way we'd hoped they would with supply.

Quote:
And maybe I'm assuming things, but the 80PLUS reports for the "TXv2s" appear a lot more like PSHII than anything from SeaSonic.
Like I said, I can't talk about unannounced products, but the TXV2s currently on the 80Plus website right now may not be representative of what may show up there in the future.

Quote:
And we asked about the CX Builder series, and never heard anything from any Corsair representative. I think I even PM'd you; I'm not sure, I'll check. But we heard almost nothing about the CX series; and the new CX series are not something I ever expected to see from Corsair. I initially expected a decent DSAII 430W; then a decent DSAII 380W; now I see an extremely cost-down DSAII unit rated at a hair above room temperature that might just scrape by at 380W. It looks like something from Thermaltake's TR2 line, not a Corsair product.
First, let me be completely honest. The CX430, CX500, and CX600 are not designed to be world class PSUs. They're designed to be the best PSU you can buy for that price, however. They do, however, pass their power ratings at the temps they're rated at. If you'd like, I can get you and one of our PSU engineers in a conversation over email, and you can ask him specifics.

The current CX series is rated at 30C, but it's still rated at continuous power output (not peak). It's basically designed to be a viable option for small system integrators, low-cost builds (my dad's $300 email/office machine, for example), and the like. If you go to Newegg and look for a $30 PSU, the CX430 should be one of the best you can find (unless something is on a crazy rebate).

Quote:
Maybe there's a good explanation for all of this; but for the past several months Corsair has been seriously scaring me. After the disappointment of the CX series and the complete silence in response, was it unreasonable to assume the worst about the TX line?
I think it might have been a bit premature, especially as in the last few months we've also launched the best PSUs we've ever made, and arguably the best PSUs in the world. (AX series)

I think it's reasonable to be cynical in this industry - and I don't fault anybody for being cynical. Lord knows I am. But I'm always on HardOCP and like I said, redbeard@corsair.com goes directly to my personal inbox.

I don't mean to scare you, but we did need to fill in the lower end of our product line. For years all we had were products between $80 and $250. That's the top end of the PSU market, and a huge portion of sales are under $80. So the CX (and to some degree, GS) are designed to attack that market as well.

Just because somebody only wants to spend $30 on a PSU doesn't mean that they should have to worry about the safety of their product.
Edited by CorsairGeorge - 12/27/10 at 11:50am
post #119 of 209
Currently the CX430 is on newegg for $43.99 meanwhile the Antec Neo 400c (which is a far better PSU) is $44.99. At those prices, the Antec is a far more attractive option.

You could say that the CX430 provides an extra 30w, but In reality, it cannot unless your PC/room is really cold
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post #120 of 209
Thread Starter 
I know why you've moved to PSHII; CWT is discontinuing PSH, PSHII is cheaper, and you'll have a higher profit margin with PSHII than with the old PSH units. PSH vs. PSHII are different enough to warrant new reviews, and certainly PSHII is different enough from SeaSonic's S12 platform to justify a new look at that unit at least. But when it comes down to it, the current TX750 is not the same product that earned thousands of five star reviews on Newegg, and consumers have a right to know what they are buying.


The CX series was never intended to be world class, but the problem is that you've built yourselves an image of being world class. I could probably find a dozen technicians in as many hours who don't see any difference between the CX600 and the HX650 except the price, modularity, and 50W. When you present yourself as a world class company you need to keep true to that. Would you be fine with it if BMW or Lamborghini released something in the class of a Honda Civic, with no reviews and the specs sheets quietly understated? At least in the car world, people would notice the difference soon enough and call bull. With PSUs, the enthusiast market are the ones who will notice, and believe it or not even enthusiasts sometimes have needs for budget PSUs. And the enthusiast market are the people who've taken your company to where it is today.

I would have no problem with the CX430, if it was labeled as a 300-350W unit rated at 40C and sold for $30. Because that would be an honest rating. Calling it a 430W requires rating it at room temperature (Dubai room temperature at any rate) and inflating the power rating via overdrawing the +5V and +3.3V. These are on par with or only slightly less shady than marketing something at its peak draw. What next, counting the +5VSB and -12V like Ultra does?

As a company that has earned a reputation as world class, you do not get to stoop to those levels, no matter how good the profits from it look in your quarterly projection. I'm not upset because these products are remarkably poor; I'm upset because you've casually stained your once spotless record.



When it comes down to it, the CX430 is not a 430W power supply, not by the standards one holds a Corsair PSU up to. And the revised TX series has been handled very clumsily and you should have been more transparent about when these were shipping, and providing new review samples to show us that you are not reneging on your promise of world class reliability, quality, and performance.
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