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Some thoughts on the Cherry MX Blue Debate. - Page 7

post #61 of 80
I agree that the utter mechanics of a Cherry blue switch immediately puts the user at a disadvantage while in certain gaming situations. Not all, but defiantly a disadvantage in some that can be avoided with other switch types. I dont know about you guys, but when I play cs 1.6 I am not paying attention to the clicks my keyboard makes each time I strafe from left to right prefiring a corner or box. I have played cs 1.6 at the highest levels and I can tell you, if you describe the mechanics of the cherry blue switch to another high level player at LAN without letting them try the switch they would immediately rather use what they are comfortable using (if they are using a rubber dome, its not important). There are times in CS where you are not afforded the time to allow the key to go to full rest before you have to push it back down again to center your aim. I could go on and on and on but the bottom line is that there are other switches for ideal gaming use that can be further narrowed by preference. For example browns vs blacks.

Also I agree with ch 123 on the fact that Razor eventually choose the blues was because the selling point of it being more unique to a rubber dome vs the browns (they wanted something to stand out on the shelves at best buy beyond backlighting and macro keys). Razer is filling the press releases with all kinds of nonsence about being the first mech gaming keyboard (not true) blah blah blah... It is all just to get a sale, not provide the best product for the specific use to the end user.

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post #62 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuiees View Post
There are times in CS where you are not afforded the time to allow the key to go to full rest before you have to push it back down again to center your aim.
This is also up to the user, no? Long ago I broke the habit of movement aiming. Aiming with the mouse and sticking to cover will win you many more fire fights, at least for a lot of people. Now I'm hardly a pro FPS gamer, but I found that I did much better when I kicked that habit, since there is nothing quicker or more accurate than your mouse, and you need to use it.

That said, I can definitely see there being a point there for some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuiees View Post
Also I agree with ch 123 on the fact that Razor eventually choose the blues was because the selling point of it being more unique to a rubber dome vs the browns (they wanted something to stand out on the shelves at best buy beyond backlighting and macro keys). Razer is filling the press releases with all kinds of nonsence about being the first mech gaming keyboard (not true) blah blah blah... It is all just to get a sale, not provide the best product for the specific use to the end user.
Obviously. Blacks and browns aren't nearly as exciting to newcomers.
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post #63 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMW1011 View Post
This is also up to the user, no? Long ago I broke the habit of movement aiming. Aiming with the mouse and sticking to cover will win you many more fire fights, at least for a lot of people. Now I'm hardly a pro FPS gamer, but I found that I did much better when I kicked that habit, since there is nothing quicker or more accurate than your mouse, and you need to use it.

That said, I can definitely see there being a point there for some.
I am not as familiar with other FPS games as I am with CS, but in CS if you're strafing one way or the other, even if you release the key you will still slide to that direction for a split instance. In order to counter that (CS has pretty high recoil and movement messes with that), you have to either tap the other direction as soon as you let go of the other, or hold both down together (hold "a" and "d" simultaneously). Now these small nuances may only be noticed by the most experienced of players, but they are still issues that can not be overcome in some cases if a blue switch is being used. And if my opponent has this advantage over me, in a game where there are only 16 rounds in a match 1 frag or 1 clutch round can make all the difference.

I am not trying to say you didnt make the right choice because obviously you did. It seems you are very happy with the product you got and that is awesome. That is the goal!

I think webwit is just trying to point out certain small things for new comers to watch out for. After all some; at the highest levels demand certain performance, and when reading some of these posts it can be mis leading to someone who has never actually had a chance to put the switch to use in a practical environment.
    
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post #64 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuiees View Post
I am not as familiar with other FPS games as I am with CS, but in CS if you're strafing one way or the other, even if you release the key you will still slide to that direction for a split instance. In order to counter that (CS has pretty high recoil and movement messes with that), you have to either tap the other direction as soon as you let go of the other, or hold both down together (hold "a" and "d" simultaneously). Now these small nuances may only be noticed by the most experienced of players, but they are still issues that can not be overcome in some cases if a blue switch is being used. And if my opponent has this advantage over me, in a game where there are only 16 rounds in a match 1 frag or 1 clutch round can make all the difference.
Ah I see. I haven't played CS in years. That is a good point, and I could definitely see the problem there. I think the strafe cancel delay would drive me nuts, though. Maybe that's why I haven't played CS in years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuiees View Post
I think webwit is just trying to point out certain small things for new comers to watch out for. After all some; at the highest levels demand certain performance, and when reading some of these posts it can be mis leading to someone who has never actually had a chance to put the switch to use in a practical environment.
Which has already been covered, and yes, by myself. I have said many times, and I tell everyone to either try Cherry MX Blues out first or buy from someplace with a good return policy, if they are affected by the double tapping issue.
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post #65 of 80
I guess i'll "run with" webwit's use of running shoes(pun intended). My fiancee like many ppl would run on track for a few miles, and we had the nike outlet right next to us so we'd just buy sneakers from there. Then she decided to goto a shoe running place, called runner joes, they just run. She had to schedule an appointment, they measured her feet, told her to run around with her regular shoes then with recommended shoes. She said wow, what a difference, i never noticed how uncomfortable the nikes were (these were 70$ running shoe nikes). This is the thing, the runner joes ppl (they had a staff of 3) found the right sneaker for her arch and running style, she never noticed she had problems because she never knew any existed cuz of her current equipment.

Just like how when a g15/other membrane user goes to a mechanical for the first time, they go, wow! there is no more mushy, i never knew it could be like this. The same could be said about a cherry blue gamer, they might not notice they even have an issue with double tapping until they goto a switch that is not as mechanically restrictive such as a brown or black.

like phaedros(your fault for having a horrible name) has said, you get to game with the quirks and possibly advantages of a cherry brown, with the hover until press or just with the straight fowardness of a pure linear black for double tapping. You'll never really know "if" you have an issue until something else is tried. (i could point to my mod of a ghetto cherry brown from cherry blue as well but it's a permanent mod)
post #66 of 80
Thread Starter 
Lanx there is a big flaw in your analogy.

Those coming from rubber dome already lack the double tap issue, so if they went to a switch with the issue, shouldn't that be one of the comparisons made? Other mechanical switches are largely irrelevant, in that context, since they share that property with rubber domes. The thing is, many people won't notice it, as the Black Widow reviews and polls have shown.

I do agree that you only really know until you try the competition as well. I tried Blacks, which I disliked. I haven't tried Browns or clears, but I think I have a decent idea of what they would be like. Many people, however, don't have that option and point of reference which is a shame.
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post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMW1011 View Post
The thing is, many people won't notice it, as the Black Widow reviews and polls have shown.
My experience with those review things on etailer websites is that 99% of the reviews are either of the form

LOL OMG BEST THING EVER 5 STARS

or

THE ONE I GOT WAS A DUD AND INSTEAD OF GETTING A REPLACEMENT I DECIDED TO COME HERE AND WHINGE ABOUT IT, AND THUS DEMONSTRATING MY COMPLETE LACK OF PERSPECTIVE

It's very rare that people actually pick up on issues of any relevance.

Again, you get the effect of the keyboard feeling far nicer than the average Dell rubber dome keyboard, prompting people to think that it's great, and indeed people getting caught up in various forms of marketing hysteria. Then they run off and tell people how great the keyboard is without testing it properly.

With stuff like this, the opinions of people who have problems with it are arguably more important than the opinions of those who don't. Especially when the latter say stuff like this -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segovax View Post
I like Blues too and don't understand the gaming whiners.
But I guess the lack of experience with the competition is another problem. I guess if I hadn't already tried two flavors of buckling spring and the Black Alps before trying Blue Cherries, I may have thought that this sort of thing was normal.
Edited by ch_123 - 12/27/10 at 3:06pm
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post #68 of 80
This thread is ridiculous.

One side: There are flaws, others are better.
Other side: Yes, there are flaws, I don't notice them.

Both sides need to stop being immature and realize a: there are problems. b: there are different switches. c: people will ALWAYS prefer one switch over others.

webwit: you are being kind of a dick. Like, you're points are valid but you're just being a jerk. That's not cool.
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post #69 of 80
I just got back from a friend's house who got an XArmor U9BL for Xmas and played with the board for a bit.

I did run into the double tapping issue that some people refer to...but not while gaming. I was doing a typing test and typed the word "really" and only 1 "l" registered. I tried to replicate it....it only happened twice out of about 15 tries. Neither my friend who got the board nor my other friend had the problem.

Take it for what it's worth.
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post #70 of 80
I've summarized this thread using logical fallacies, although I got bored halfway so there are probably some more:

Argumentum ad truthiness - I feel there is no problem with the MX Blues, so your facts are worth nothing.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam - Some people don't notice a problem, so the problem doesn't exist.

Argumentum ad hominem - The MX Blue has no problem, because webwit is a) mad, b) a little child, c) a sore loser, d) asinine, e) delusional, f) full of BS, g) arrogant, h) browbeating, i) without a life, j) terribly immature, h) an ass, i) a person that nobody likes with no or very few friends in real life,which he does not have, nor does he talk to anyone out of his room, j) blindly ignorant

Judgmental language - See above.

Argumentum ad odium - Webwit isn't any better than anyone else here! Hence there is no problem with the MX Blues.

Proof by verbosity - I write a wall-of-text there is no problem with the MX Blue, hence there is no problem with the MX Blue

Argumentum ad populum - Many idiots fail to notice the handicap the MX Blue provides, so there is no hadicap
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