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[Androidized] Android to Become Market Leader in 2011 - Page 9

post #81 of 124
Except that Apple cared about nothing but marketshare until Android rocketed past them.

Before:
"Oh we have so many apps and sold so many phones"


After:
"Android will be the market leader, and the iPhone is a niche product, but its an amazing niche product"



Google simply has a better model. They don't even actually care about software. They will do relatively minor bi-yearly updates (with the exception of Froyo) and just let the dev community customize the rest to suit their needs, and that community has been responsible for most of the innovation in the entire smartphone market.

I don't know about you, but I think I know what I want in a phone better than Apple or Google. The difference is that Google actually lets me do it.


They've managed to unite Motorola, Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony and others under a common banner. If that sounds familiar its because it is: Microsoft did that with Windows in the 90s, and look what happened there...
    
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post #82 of 124
I just got myself a samsung wave, and i gotta tell ya, its literally the best phone for movies especially hd ones. Its alot faster than android and looks better imo. not alot of apps for bada though...
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post #83 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Except that Apple cared about nothing but marketshare until Android rocketed past them.

Before:
"Oh we have so many apps and sold so many phones"


After:
"Android will be the market leader, and the iPhone is a niche product, but its an amazing niche product"



Google simply has a better model. They don't even actually care about software. They will do relatively minor bi-yearly updates (with the exception of Froyo) and just let the dev community customize the rest to suit their needs, and that community has been responsible for most of the innovation in the entire smartphone market.

I don't know about you, but I think I know what I want in a phone better than Apple or Google. The difference is that Google actually lets me do it.


They've managed to unite Motorola, Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony and others under a common banner. If that sounds familiar its because it is: Microsoft did that with Windows in the 90s, and look what happened there...
bi-yearly?

In the last 18 months, we've had: Android 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3.

That is in no way bi-yearly. That's 1 every 3 months.

Apple cares nothing about having everyone having an iPhone. They care about making lots of money.

No matter what way you look at it, Apple gets a tonne of money from each iOS device sold. The iPhone 4 has a profit margin of something like 60%, the iPad about 50%. This all adds up to a monumental amount of raw profit - amounts Motorola and HTC can only dream of.

Yes, Android phones are good, and the top end ones (your Desire HDs, Galaxy S' etc) are excellent rivals to the iPhone. The problem is that when they quote market share, that includes budget handsets - which generate almost no profit. Assuming my old Android phone cost 2/3 of a Nexus One, it made a $45 profit - which I can safely say is pitiful, considering Apple made around $400 on my iPhone 4.

People seem to imply that there is a kind of market share war going on - yet Apple has never been about that. Sure, they're on the way up at the moment in terms of overall market share (in all their markets) but Apple has always preferred to sell premium products that generate a much higher profit - and it works.

What you say about how the community effectively drives development of Android is just wrong, sure Android is more customizable, but that hasn't stopped most of the manufacturers from shipping their own user interfaces. Google has made significant changes to Android under the skin - and just because you can reskin Android doesn't change this. One thing is for sure - the Android community has not been responsible for most smartphone innovation, far from it in fact.

About uniting under a common banner - true, but that's mostly because they concede that on their own, they wouldn't be able to compete with Apple, so need the common appstore to draw users and make a profit.
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post #84 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cepheus View Post
bi-yearly?

In the last 18 months, we've had: Android 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3.

That is in no way bi-yearly. That's 1 every 3 months.

Apple cares nothing about having everyone having an iPhone. They care about making lots of money.

No matter what way you look at it, Apple gets a tonne of money from each iOS device sold. The iPhone 4 has a profit margin of something like 60%, the iPad about 50%. This all adds up to a monumental amount of raw profit - amounts Motorola and HTC can only dream of.

Yes, Android phones are good, and the top end ones (your Desire HDs, Galaxy S' etc) are excellent rivals to the iPhone. The problem is that when they quote market share, that includes budget handsets - which generate almost no profit. Assuming my old Android phone cost 2/3 of a Nexus One, it made a $45 profit - which I can safely say is pitiful, considering Apple made around $400 on my iPhone 4.

People seem to imply that there is a kind of market share war going on - yet Apple has never been about that. Sure, they're on the way up at the moment in terms of overall market share (in all their markets) but Apple has always preferred to sell premium products that generate a much higher profit - and it works.

What you say about how the community effectively drives development of Android is just wrong, sure Android is more customizable, but that hasn't stopped most of the manufacturers from shipping their own user interfaces. Google has made significant changes to Android under the skin - and just because you can reskin Android doesn't change this. One thing is for sure - the Android community has not been responsible for most smartphone innovation, far from it in fact.

About uniting under a common banner - true, but that's mostly because they concede that on their own, they wouldn't be able to compete with Apple, so need the common appstore to draw users and make a profit.
Awesome post!


I like iPhones, I like Androids! I prefer iPhones!

I'm just glad there is competition now! Maybe we won't have to spend as much to get a new phone now?
post #85 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cepheus View Post
Apple cares nothing about having everyone having an iPhone. They care about making lots of money.


And how do they make lots of money? By perpetuating the belief that the iPhone is the number one smartphone in the world.

Pretty much EVERY time Steve Jobs gets up on stage he says something along the lines of "iOS has more of X than any other developer"

And you think they don't care about marketshare?

If people started realizing that the iPhone wasn't number one then Apple couldn't get away with making $400/phone. People buy it because they think: "Its an iPhone" and don't even stop to consider the alternatives.


Although I doubt they are making $400/phone. Apple prices it's products ridiculously high to get you to sign a contract (with AT&T). I doubt they are charging AT&T $600 for every iPhone they sell.


You don't see people paying $160 on contract for Android phones do you? I got my mom an HTC Desire for Christmas. I got it for free and they threw in a $150 gift card. Aside from the GPU the Desire is a better, faster phone than the iPhone 4, which costs $160. The price difference means that my mom now gets a phone and a netbook for less than the price of an iPhone 4, so she can do the only thing the Desire can't: Farmville.

HTC still gets however much they charged Telus for the Desire, and Telus gets $2000 from my mother over the next 3 years.


Oh and you've got the whole profit thing completely backwards. High end phones sell less than low end ones. If HTC makes 1/10 of the profit with a low end phone as a high end phone, they will probably sell 20 times as many low end phones, thus making more profit. Thats just how the world works. Ford will make more money from their Prius than their Mustang. nVidia will make more money from their GT210s than their GTX 580s.
    
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post #86 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
You don't see people paying $160 on contract for Android phones do you?
ummm was this a serious statement?

I'll never understand why everyone says the iPhone is more expensive than top tier android phones. On contract, they cost the exact same amount to the consumer - at least when android phones first come out anyway. Then because sales are so poor the carrier reduce prices or give them away for free after so long. In any event, it's a straw argument.
Edited by ForumViewer - 12/29/10 at 4:53pm
 
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post #87 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForumViewer View Post
ummm was this a serious statement?
Yes actually it was. Maybe its different down the states, but in Canada it looks like this:


HTC Desire/Desire Z: $0 + $150 gift card for signing a 3 year contract.
Galaxy S: $0, $30 or $99 + $100 gift card
WP7: $100 + free Xbox 360 for signing a 3 year contract
iPhone 4: $160 if you sign a 3 year contract.

So basically:
HTC = -$150
Galaxy S = -$70-$0
WP7 = $-50
iPhone = $160

That makes the iPhone 4 $160-$310 more expensive than Android phones. I got my mother an HTC Desire and a netbook for less than the price of an iPhone 4.

And then you consider the off-contract price:

HTC Desire Z: $500
WP7s: $450-500
Galaxy S: $500
iPhone 4: $660

So once again you're looking at $160 more. The phones are all more or less equal, and there is no reason for the price discrepancy.
    
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post #88 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
And how do they make lots of money? By perpetuating the belief that the iPhone is the number one smartphone in the world.

Pretty much EVERY time Steve Jobs gets up on stage he says something along the lines of "iOS has more of X than any other developer"

And you think they don't care about marketshare?

If people started realizing that the iPhone wasn't number one then Apple couldn't get away with making $400/phone. People buy it because they think: "Its an iPhone" and don't even stop to consider the alternatives.


Although I doubt they are making $400/phone. Apple prices it's products ridiculously high to get you to sign a contract (with AT&T). I doubt they are charging AT&T $600 for every iPhone they sell.


You don't see people paying $160 on contract for Android phones do you? I got my mom an HTC Desire for Christmas. I got it for free and they threw in a $150 gift card. Aside from the GPU the Desire is a better, faster phone than the iPhone 4, which costs $160. The price difference means that my mom now gets a phone and a netbook for less than the price of an iPhone 4, so she can do the only thing the Desire can't: Farmville.

HTC still gets however much they charged Telus for the Desire, and Telus gets $2000 from my mother over the next 3 years.


Oh and you've got the whole profit thing completely backwards. High end phones sell less than low end ones. If HTC makes 1/10 of the profit with a low end phone as a high end phone, they will probably sell 20 times as many low end phones, thus making more profit. Thats just how the world works. Ford will make more money from their Prius than their Mustang. nVidia will make more money from their GT210s than their GTX 580s.
Apple would much rather create a phone that costs a lot and gets a reputation as 'the best' than make a budget phone and get a reputation similar to that of Nokia or Motorola. When you start getting down towards the low end of the market, the profit margins are tiny - there was speculation for example that the T-Mobile Pulse was subsidized by T-Mob in order to get it to sell (even on prepay). Apple's reputation as a producer of luxury goods means that it has much better brand power and can sell products with much higher profits.

This:

Of course Steve Jobs boasts when he gets up on stage - he wants to get companies to invest in iOS rather than Android or BB. Don't fool yourself - his press events are not for people like us - they're for news reporters and companies. When Apple launched iPhone, there were a load of record industry big wigs at the keynote - when it launched the iPad there were a load of book people there. Yes, the talks are interesting, but they're more to attract companies than sales (to an extent. The talk is sugarlaced to attract your standard Mac buff, but the bits you quote about how iOS has more of everything are primarily to attract companies). Marketshare is important to Apple, yes, but it's the high-end marketshare they've always been interested in. Android is a big threat to Apple, but they are certainly not finished, especially in the high end market. They just cost more.

In terms of profit, actually the bulk of nVidia's profits come from the enterprise level quadro and tesla cards - which are priced much higher than consumer cards so the consumer cards can be sold closer to margins.
Edited by Cepheus - 12/29/10 at 5:45pm
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post #89 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cepheus View Post
Apple would much rather create a phone that costs a lot and gets a reputation as 'the best' than make a budget phone and get a reputation similar to that of Nokia or Motorola. When you start getting down towards the low end of the market, the profit margins are tiny - there was speculation for example that the T-Mobile Pulse was subsidized by T-Mob in order to get it to sell (even on prepay). Apple's reputation as a producer of luxury goods means that it has much better brand power and can sell products with much higher profits.

Of course Steve Jobs boasts when he gets up on stage - he wants to get companies to invest in iOS rather than Android or BB. Don't fool yourself - his press events are not for people like us - they're for news reporters and companies. When Apple launched iPhone, there were a load of record industry big wigs at the keynote - when it launched the iPad there were a load of book people there. Yes, the talks are interesting, but they're more to attract companies than sales (to an extent. The talk is sugarlaced to attract your standard Mac buff, but the bits you quote about how iOS has more of everything are primarily to attract companies). Marketshare is important to Apple, yes, but it's the high-end marketshare they've always been interested in. Android is a big threat to Apple, but they are certainly not finished, especially in the high end market. They just cost more.

In terms of profit, actually the bulk of nVidia's profits come from the enterprise level quadro and tesla cards - which are priced much higher than consumer cards so the consumer cards can be sold closer to margins.

I agree with you. Apple usually sells the feeling of having something "big" in hands. People think they are cool if they buy something expensive. But as you said, it is not for us, we want a phone.
post #90 of 124
This is good, maybe they can improve the android market now.
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