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Dual Boot Woes :( - Page 2

post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
LOL. Whoops too late. Reinstalling the whole thing without the 500GB SATA hooked up. Hoping for the best. Since I didn't even get into the OS it's not like I was losing anything. Though, I know where to look if it does screw up. I just really don't want to have to.

EDIT: Screw it. It's not going to work and not worth the trouble. I guess I'm back to 2 OSes on one drive. These few weeks I've had for winter break have put me back on the unhappy side with Linux right now. Seems like every time I figure out one problem and fix it another one pops up. Oh well. The wack-a-mole continues.
Just use the 80G for backup storage. I do that, only I have 3 drives. =P
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post #12 of 29
How bout putting swap on 2nd drive and all the rest as either /home or storage for downloads and packages etc? Then you'd only need to use up say 50 - 100GB on the first drive. That still leaves a minimum if 400GB for whatever. Just install Lilo or Grub to MBR then.
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post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
That reminds me enorbet....I've been letting Kubuntu choose how to lay things out this time around (I've always set up partitions myself before). Maybe it's making bad choices in the install? I'm not holding my hopes up completely but would doing the partition layout myself possibly fix the whole "gave up waiting error". Part of me thinks it might be the motherboard though; it's a whole 10-30seconds from power on till it finishes POST. I just don't know if there's a way to make the bootloader/grub wait longer and I don't know if it would change anything. Maybe the IDE drive can't be booted from; I have the jumper on it set as master though so that doesn't make sense.

I'm not that interested since I don't use a swap.The 80GB may just be a dumping ground for things. I never needed more than 10GBs for Linux since I just left any video and music files in the windows partition. I might go up to 25GBs this time since I want to look into using Kdenlive(unless I need 50). I shouldn't have any problems having linux all the way at the rear end of the 500GB drive should I? My real problem with space comes when I want to watch a Bluray in Linux. Never got the work arounds to reading from a protected disc to work so I've always had to MakeMKV and then play them in SMPlayer (it's hit or miss with my other converter DVDFab on whether audio will work). Two movies alone fill up the 80GB drive so I will like always have something more to buy for my build.
     
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post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
That reminds me enorbet....I've been letting Kubuntu choose how to lay things out this time around (I've always set up partitions myself before). Maybe it's making bad choices in the install? I'm not holding my hopes up completely but would doing the partition layout myself possibly fix the whole "gave up waiting error". Part of me thinks it might be the motherboard though; it's a whole 10-30seconds from power on till it finishes POST. I just don't know if there's a way to make the bootloader/grub wait longer and I don't know if it would change anything. Maybe the IDE drive can't be booted from; I have the jumper on it set as master though so that doesn't make sense.
It is very likely that the above bold lines are related. What I am not certain of is what you consider to be POST. If it takes 10-30 sec. to finish trying to boot that may not be a wrong setting, but just a bad grub install. If you mean counting ram and discovering drives then that points to a setup problem. For example some IDE drives have a different jumper setting for Single, Slave, and Master WITH Slave. Be certain you have that jumper set correctly. as that could account for a long POST.

If you enter setup and reset the IDE port to force it to discover the drive while you watch it should take less than a second to discover and recognize.

As for partitioning I think you know my answer - if you want it done right, do it yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
I'm not that interested since I don't use a swap.The 80GB may just be a dumping ground for things. I never needed more than 10GBs for Linux since I just left any video and music files in the windows partition. I might go up to 25GBs this time since I want to look into using Kdenlive(unless I need 50). I shouldn't have any problems having linux all the way at the rear end of the 500GB drive should I? My real problem with space comes when I want to watch a Bluray in Linux. Never got the work arounds to reading from a protected disc to work so I've always had to MakeMKV and then play them in SMPlayer (it's hit or miss with my other converter DVDFab on whether audio will work). Two movies alone fill up the 80GB drive so I will like always have something more to buy for my build.
When I recommended a larger partition I was thinking of two things

1) I install Slackware with the "everything" option (as recommended) and then add more DEs to the 6 that come with it and lots of apps so I like lots of room for long term growth. So if you were to try Slack again that would be effective.

2) Drives get "hinky" when they get full. With drive space cheap now there is just no good reason to be skimpy and risk nearing a full state.

At this point the main thing is to install with the same setup that you plan to run. I consider it a mistake, even though it can work, to remove a drive "to protect it" while installing on another. I'm not saying you do or did this, just that it is to be avoided since it adds complex variables better avoided by pre-planning.

Recap - 30 seconds to POST is a hardware setup problem and needs fixing.

30 seconds to find grub that was improperly installed is "normal" and only requires fixing grub.

When mixing SATA, IDE and eSATA drives be very certain how Linux assigns device names so that Grub is installed to the right drives MBR.

Be careful with installing a bootable partition at the end of a drive due to the 1024 cylinder boot issue. It is no longer a hard barrier but is the main reason that /boot is often given it's own partition before the 1024th cylinder. It just works better than the LBA32 workaround.
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post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Would I be fine if I just got rid of the jumper or set it to slave? The only settings were Master or slave if I recall correctly. I just tried the build without the IDE hooked up and still slow to get from POST to booting a drive or entering the BIOS. Think it's just the board. I'm currently having a hell of a time with it (the BIOS options for OCing are confusing as hell). I'm going to keep tinkering around with it since I have about a week before I need it setup (classes start again).
     
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post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
Would I be fine if I just got rid of the jumper or set it to slave? The only settings were Master or slave if I recall correctly.
No. I mean you could try it to see if it identifies faster. It won't hurt, but if it is not listed on the drive label it probably won't work. Also it is exceedingly rare that an IDE/PATA hard drive will run as Slave if there is no Master. It's one of the improvements of SATA that they don't need such settings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
I just tried the build without the IDE hooked up and still slow to get from POST to booting a drive or entering the BIOS. Think it's just the board. I'm currently having a hell of a time with it (the BIOS options for OCing are confusing as hell). I'm going to keep tinkering around with it since I have about a week before I need it setup (classes start again).
If by "slow" you still mean like 20-30 seconds on any mobo newer than a Socket 7 that is highly suspect. What mobo is it? I would check voltages, set it for long POST to test ram, maybe even run Memtest, and probably flash the CMOS to the latest version.
Something is rotten in Taiwan.
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post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 
Well, it sucks about having an IDE drive then. 80GBs would be perfect for me and my needs with Linux. It's not even worth trying to sell the drive . If only someone would trade an 80GB SATA for my IDE.

Well, I set the board to the long POST like you said and strangely it took just about as long to finish and then boot a drive (spent only 10 seconds on the full print out of results which I couldn't read all the way through before it booted since I didn't know how to stop it). Another thing that I just found about the board is that even with the onboard GPU disabled it still steals 1MB from my RAM. I also just found that I may only have 2 real USB 2.0 ports with 4 USB1.0/1.1. Rather shocked at that and a bit annoyed too. But with the POST thing; would having too high of voltages cause this? I've been raising them a bit to work on OCing.

Related to the install problems my Bluray drive seems to now be having trouble reading some DVDs that I made with my old laptop drive. I tried reinstalling some steam games that I backed up onto discs only to get errors stating that the launcher isn't 64bit or when I run as administrator that the file can't be found.
     
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post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
Well, it sucks about having an IDE drive then. 80GBs would be perfect for me and my needs with Linux. It's not even worth trying to sell the drive . If only someone would trade an 80GB SATA for my IDE.
IDE drives are not useless at all. They just require more manual setup than SATA and wider cables. In your case something is not quite right with the mobo and/or related hardware such as RAM or it's setup in BIOS. You can either drop back to Defaults and start fresh to eliminate settings variables or narrow down to what is failing with present settings I'll outline what to do about that at the end of this post. For now let's address the IDE issue.

The first thing to do is to enter BIOS setup and go to the IDE Drive section, usually on the first page. Enter the one where your drive is installed. It is likely that you only have one IDE interface, Primary, that is divided into Master and Slave. Enter each of those in turn and force it to detect what is on that port. Your IDE hdd should only show up on one, hopefully Master since your jumper is set to that, and be correctly detected as 80G. It should not take but a very few seconds to detect and identify.

If it has trouble detecting the drive then that is likely what delays POST so long as you probably have detection set to "Auto" which means it must detect it every time you boot. However IIRC you said it takes just as long when the drive is disconnected so this can't be the sole problem. At this point we just want to be certain the drive is properly detected and hopefully in a reasonable time > less than 5 full seconds at the most.

Success here means the drive works and so does that portion of the BIOS setup. It is important to know that for certain and not assume. Post your results and we will deal with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
Well, I set the board to the long POST like you said and strangely it took just about as long to finish and then boot a drive (spent only 10 seconds on the full print out of results which I couldn't read all the way through before it booted since I didn't know how to stop it)..
The Pause/Break key will stop it temporarily. I am assuming you mean the page where POST lists all the hardware it has found. This helps because all drives are listed there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
Another thing that I just found about the board is that even with the onboard GPU disabled it still steals 1MB from my RAM. I also just found that I may only have 2 real USB 2.0 ports with 4 USB1.0/1.1. Rather shocked at that and a bit annoyed too. But with the POST thing; would having too high of voltages cause this? I've been raising them a bit to work on OCing.
There are commonly more than one place to adjust how onboard graphics is implemented. As you mentioned there is the simple on/off setting but there is also a place that assigns how much Ram gets shared. There should also be a setting for default graphics by bus. If you have a PCIe card it should be set to PCIe - not default, not AGP or whatever else is there.

Too high of a voltage setting causes heat and silicon degradation not slow activity. It's important to adjust voltages carefully and with knowledge of what your hardware can handle but in general too high will translate to too hot so monitoring temps is a decent indicator of whether your hardware is being pushed too hard or not. There is a monitor in BIOS but it is under minimal load there so add a few degrees (8-10) for moderate to heavy load. If it is too hot it is best to turn it down until you improve cooling. A good rule of thumb is that 140 degrees Fahrenheit is the threshold of human pain and trust me you will yank your finger off 130 in a hurry. Only GPUs should really ever operate around that temp without very seriously considering better cooling. Heat is the number one enemy of electronics. Extreme heat like 150 or so could cause slow POST because errors become rampant as digital begins to round off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
Related to the install problems my Bluray drive seems to now be having trouble reading some DVDs that I made with my old laptop drive. I tried reinstalling some steam games that I backed up onto discs only to get errors stating that the launcher isn't 64bit or when I run as administrator that the file can't be found.
It used to be that the first sign of a too high overclock was data corruption on drives. This was because overclocking was done primarily by increasing the Front Side Bus speed which would also increase the clock on the drive controllers abd they are very sensitive to clock speeds. Nowadays the drive controllers and I/O chips are separated from the CPU and RAM clock entirely. AMD (and some Intel) use an onboard memory controller built into the CPU. Such systems have a BIOS setting for BUS speeds such as for PCIe. Just be certain this is at least close to spec.

Summary: While you can go at this problem from either direction as mentioned above, with all the hardware issues you seem to be experiencing it is probably wise to get back to stock settings if for no other reason that to eliminate that variable and reduce heat. Pare down, narrow down until only one thing remains and that is the culprit. I would run Memtest right away to insure RAM is good. If Windows still boots I would run Prime95 Torture Test for ay least 2 or 3 hours to insure CPU and RAM system work well together.

Once you are assured that all is stable and cool try to install again. Alternatively you could use another system, even borrow a friends or family members briefly, to install to the IDE. Then try booting it alone on your system, It's trivial if it is Slackware because it doesn't go right to X. If it is some other distro I'd use the Recovery or Maintenance boot option to keep it simple and then configure X on your own system.

This is so long you may need to respond to separate sections individually or PM me. Whatever, dude, I'm there for ya.
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post #19 of 29
Thread Starter 
Well, you're right about that being long but it covered a lot I needed. Fortunately, I believe I fixed the disc drive and the mouse issue(for the most part it just acts up after being left alone for a while). It was the HT being at or above 2000 caused all of those problems. As soon as I dropped it down below that the drive worked fine and the mouse no longer has the weird behavior.

I'm definitely going to check around the BIOS for the drive settings. Should I force detection on esata and sata as well?

Also, my BIOS auto detects hardware on contact so as soon as I put the GTX275 in the on board chip would no longer work. Sadly I can't seem to find any way to let it give me back that last 1MB of RAM it's taking. Only option seems to be telling it where to take it from; the start of the RAM amount or the end of the RAM amount (it's words not mine).

Since no one else has answered this question maybe you have an idea and I've been bothering both the cpu and mobo subsections of the AMD section on this forum for some answers (provide links to them as they have more info); but is it a sign of bad things when the cores are on different tests at the same time in p95? I've been having it where after about 30 mins to an hour that one core starts leading the others and eventually they all are on different tests. I've finished 2 2hour test with no errors though. This was before I fixed the HT to below 2000.

Ultimately I'm going to go back to defaults and hope that it's not the board. But even at defaults I couldn't install Kubuntu.

Here's the other threads with my problem:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/900408-amd-athalon-ii-x4-640-3-a.html (I co-opted this one halfway through )

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/90...lp-thread.html

http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...evo-users.html

Really appreciate the effort.
     
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core m3-6Y30 Intel HD515 8GB 1866DDR3L Micron M600 MTFDDAV256MBF M.2, 256 GB 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Fanless Win10 Home x64 Kubuntu 16.04 (requires Linux kernel 4.5/4.6) 13.3 inch 16:9, 1920x1080 pixel, AU Optronics A... 
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AthlonIIX4 640 3.62GHz (250x14.5) 2.5GHz NB Asus M4A785TD-M EVO MSI GTX275 (Stock 666) 8GBs of GSkill 1600 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
4GBs of Adata 1333 Kingston HyperX 3k 120GB WD Caviar Black 500GB Hitachi Deskstar 1TB 
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CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core m3-6Y30 Intel HD515 8GB 1866DDR3L Micron M600 MTFDDAV256MBF M.2, 256 GB 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Fanless Win10 Home x64 Kubuntu 16.04 (requires Linux kernel 4.5/4.6) 13.3 inch 16:9, 1920x1080 pixel, AU Optronics A... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AthlonIIX4 640 3.62GHz (250x14.5) 2.5GHz NB Asus M4A785TD-M EVO MSI GTX275 (Stock 666) 8GBs of GSkill 1600 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
4GBs of Adata 1333 Kingston HyperX 3k 120GB WD Caviar Black 500GB Hitachi Deskstar 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
LG 8X BDR (WHL08S20) Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Kubuntu x64 Windows 7 x64 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Bodhi Linux x64 Acer G215H (1920x1080) Seasonic 520 HAF912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
N450 1.8GHz AC and 1.66GHz batt ASUS proprietary for 1001P GMA3150 (can play bluray now!?) 1GB DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSOS
160GB LGLHDLBDRE32X Bodhi Linux Fedora LXDE 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Kubuntu SLAX 1280x600 + Dell 15inch Excellent! 
PowerCase
6 cells=6-12hrs and a charger 1001P MU17 Black 
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post #20 of 29
I went to newegg and looked up your board and noticed some things that I can't quite reconcile with your own experience as quoted below. Not that I'd worry much about a lousy 1MB but why is onboard using any shared when it apparently has it's own? Is this for the (in your case, wisely unused) Crossfire option perhaps? Or is this just max shareable?


Quote:
<from newegg>

Onboard Video

Onboard Video Chipset
Integrated ATI Radeon HD 4200 GPU
SidePort Memory - onboard 128MB DDR3 1333 memory

Also...
Quote:
FSB 2600MHz Hyper Transport
Considering OCing is either for a few games or fun and learning these days I can't help but wonder if bringing down HT to 2000 in order to support a higher CPU clock is a worthwhile tradeoff. For a very long time now CPU development has outpaced every other component on the mobo with the exception of some GPUs. Commonly even on single core systems the CPU is idle for many clock cycles waiting even on RAM, let alone drive systems and lesser busses. Multi cores often have entire cores sitting idle as well as even the main core. Have you rune any A/B benchmarks to verify your OC is effective? Giving you more performance where you want or need it?


In my experience shoring up the weakest links to achieve a more balanced system achieves the biggest improvement. Example - In 1998 I bought an Asus P3-BF Slot 1 mobo that had the venerable 440BX chipset. I didn't have to retire it until 2007 and it could play Quake 4, Doom3, at reasonable framerates !

How? I used a Slotket to install a PIII-S 1.4GHz CPU (originally topped out design was half that w/o the slotket). But the real gains came from installing a PCI IDE acceleration card that jumped throughput from roughly 20MB/Sec to almost 100MB/sec and PC133 ram in place of PC100 and OCed the bejeezus out of RAM, made possible now that the 66MHz IDE card would not corrupt like the onboard 33MHz controller would. That and a BIOS mod to unlock AGP X 4 and the fastest AGP nVidia card I could find created an extremely well balanced system that surprised even me and shocked others.

The point is - Don't get fooled by mere CPU clock speeds. AMD proved that a unit running at 3/4ths the clock but doing 4 instructions per clock instead of 3 per clock accomplished as much or more and often with less heat. I am by no means saying don't OC (Blasphemy!!!) just do it where it counts most for what you do.

I doubt there is a need to watch BIOS detect SATAs but it can't hurt to "nail it down" before moving on. Even though Prime95 stresses RAM some I would try a thorough Memtest just to be sure there are no bad cells. SisSoft Sandra is another free doze app that has even wider stress testing tools and benchmarks. One compares your system to similar systems in 5 distinct areas. Quite useful for a windows app, seeing you can't yet install Linux on it.

I don't know much about SMP but I do know that parallelism is not at all perfect in hardware nor cast in stone so to speak in software. I would defer to Prime95 and assume it would error out and stop if this were a serious problem.

I would really enjoy knowing if the IDE had Linux installed on another box would boot on that one. Does the LiveCD run?
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Intel i5 - 3550 Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Gigabyte GTX 760  4x2GB Corsair Vengeance 
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NewMain
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 - 3550 Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Gigabyte GTX 760  4x2GB Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate SATA 2TB x 2  Plextor PX-891SAW CM-Hyper N520 Slackware 14, Studio KUbuntu, OpenSuSe 12.3, Wi... 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
32" Vizio HDTV + DLP Logitech Wireless Corsair HX-850 Antec Sonata I 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Razer DeathAdder 2013 dual ESI Juli@ CoolGear ExtSata Enclosure w/ Optical and 3TB S... 
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