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push/pull and shroud on GTX360 radiator. Will it make a difference?

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Simple question.

By this test, adding a shroud gives 4% better performance.

But this test is also testing a radiator with lower fin count than the GTX360 (tested has 13 FPI and the gtx has 20 fpi).
And also, I'm going to use more than one radiator. Three.

So room wise, and usage wise, will a push->shroud->rad->pull give better results, or in the end, it won't give any added performance in a mult-radiator setup?

Even 1-2c matters to me, and I just miss a few shrouds for all the radiators atm, and I just want to mount the radiators already so I can have some progress
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post #2 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Simple question.

By this test, adding a shroud gives 4% better performance.

But this test is also testing a radiator with lower fin count than the GTX360 (tested has 13 FPI and the gtx has 20 fpi).
And also, I'm going to use more than one radiator. Three.

So room wise, and usage wise, will a push->shroud->rad->pull give better results, or in the end, it won't give any added performance in a mult-radiator setup?

Even 1-2c matters to me, and I just miss a few shrouds for all the radiators atm, and I just want to mount the radiators already so I can have some progress
If every degree counts, then yes it will make a difference. What shroud does is basically remove the dead spot in the middle of the fan which in the end produces more air flow.

I currently have ap-15s in push/pull config in a gtx 360 rad and that knocked of 2 degrees in contrast to just pull config.
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post #3 of 8
It will give you better results, but the effect is multiplied as the FPI of the rad goes up. Thinner, lower FPI rads won't benefit as much from push/pull as thick, high FPI rads would.

I still don't understand why shrouds would work better though. I understand it removes the deadspot in the middle. But fans move a certain amount of air, that's not something you can alter unless you modify the voltage of the fan. That certain amount of air will move through the radiator regardless if it's in the shape of a donut or a circle. Unless a larger percentage of water flows through the middle of the rad instead of the outsides, I don't see how adding a shroud could make an effect on temperature, much less a drastic one. It seems shrouds allow the fans hit more surface area, at the expense of the speed of the airflow.
post #4 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by quentin View Post
I don't see how adding a shroud could make an effect on temperature, much less a drastic one. It seems shrouds allow the fans hit more surface area, at the expense of the speed of the airflow.
Look at how the radiators are built.
The fins make little wind tunnels.
So if air doesn't hit the middle of each section because of the fan's middle section, it means that only about 50-60% of the surface gets air.

Roughly, as far as I understand, if you have a 50 cfm fan hitting the radiator at 60% of the surface, if you add a shroud, you will get lets say a 45 cfm fan hitting 100% of the surface.
Every test out there, shows a big difference in temps.

But my question is, since I'm using a multi-radiator setup, how much will shrouds actually affect it?
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post #5 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Every test out there, shows a big difference in temps.

But my question is, since I'm using a multi-radiator setup, how much will shrouds actually affect it?
This is hard to say based on the info you have provided. If your loop already has enough cooling capacity to cool the thermal load of your rig, then adding shrouds or even additional radiators will have no effect since the water is already as close to ambient as possible. On the other hand, if your rig is really taxing your loop then yes, shrouds and push pull will lower your temps by a few c.

Look at how many watts of heat your rig is putting out and compare that to the cooling capacity of your rads with the fans you currently are running. Finally, if you can look at your delta of water in air out to see if you are already cooling at max efficiency.
post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatDog View Post
This is hard to say based on the info you have provided. If your loop already has enough cooling capacity to cool the thermal load of your rig, then adding shrouds or even additional radiators will have no effect since the water is already as close to ambient as possible. On the other hand, if your rig is really taxing your loop then yes, shrouds and push pull will lower your temps by a few c.

Look at how many watts of heat your rig is putting out and compare that to the cooling capacity of your rads with the fans you currently are running. Finally, if you can look at your delta of water in air out to see if you are already cooling at max efficiency.
Thanks for the advice.
My system is being built atm, so I don't really know how much heat it will take.
980x + motherboard + 4 cards on 3 gtx360 radiators.
Most likely it will take about 1500w of heat?
200 cpu, 100 motherboard, 300*4 gpus (everything OCed, give or take), so its 1500w of heat?

So by skinnee's test here (I don't have any other reference tests), for a 10 degrees difference, 3 radiators of what I got at 1850 rpm, will dispense about 700x3 = 2100w of heat?
Or at 5 degrees its about 1000w?
So give or take, it means I will get 8-9 degrees difference at full load?

Or did I calculate it wrong?
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post #7 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Look at how the radiators are built.
The fins make little wind tunnels.
So if air doesn't hit the middle of each section because of the fan's middle section, it means that only about 50-60% of the surface gets air.

Roughly, as far as I understand, if you have a 50 cfm fan hitting the radiator at 60% of the surface, if you add a shroud, you will get lets say a 45 cfm fan hitting 100% of the surface.
Every test out there, shows a big difference in temps.

But my question is, since I'm using a multi-radiator setup, how much will shrouds actually affect it?
Actually it will be the same cfms with or without the shroud, but with shrouds there will be more surface area to hit, and thus, less static pressure. Without shrouds, there will be the same amount of airflow on less surface area, thus, more static pressure. I'm not saying shrouds don't work, they definitely do, but I don't see why.

And if they work on one radiator, they will work twice as good on two, or thrice on three. It will help your load temps, no so much idle. Go for it anyway.
Edited by quentin - 12/29/10 at 9:28pm
post #8 of 8
If you got the room and the shroud then it never hurts cuz every little bit helps on load temps. I'd put a shroud on all of your rads in push/pull config for optimal performance if it's possible.
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