Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › Corsair TX series changes - what we did, why we did it, and how it affects you.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Corsair TX series changes - what we did, why we did it, and how it affects you.

post #1 of 111
Thread Starter 
Some of you guys may have seen some threads around with titles like “TX Series Changed in Secret!” and “Corsair Changes TX Series Without Telling Anybody” and “My Corsair TX series is changing, is this all part of growing up?”



There’s been a lot of speculation and rumor going around, so why don’t we address it right here:

Yes, some of the TX series PSUs have changed platforms.





What changed?

The platforms have switched on the TX850, TX750, and TX650. Probably the most significant change is on the TX650, which went from being a Seasonic S12-based unit to a CWT PSH II unit, and received an upgrade from a 120mm fan to a 140mm fan. This is the most noticeable of the changes. The 750 and 850 have also been upgraded from the older PSH units to the PSH II.



Why did you do that?

Honestly, one of the major reasons for the change was because you guys are buying tons of TX series PSUs and we wanted to make sure we had inventory to meet that demand. The old platform was not as efficient to manufacture, and while it’s still rock solid, we felt that updating it a bit couldn’t hurt and wouldn’t offend anybody.



How do the new parts perform?

The PSH II offers a few benefits over the older platforms, one of which is increased efficiency. While the older platforms were standard 80Plus efficiency, the new platforms are borderline 80Plus Bronze. Also, they have slightly tighter ripple/noise, and voltage regulation. The audible noise levels should be about the same, as should the overall build quality and lifetime of the products. They are still rated at 50C and come with Corsair’s 5 year warranty.



Why wasn’t this announced?

This one might be a boneheaded move by us – but we honestly didn’t expect there’d be a big issue over it. As we saw it, customers were getting a part that performed better than the old one that could be bought for less money (TX series prices have dropped considerably since they were first launched 4 years ago) which seemed a win-win. We labeled them as –C units on the stickers, but kept the model numbers the same in marketing so it wouldn’t require a huge press announcement or marketing/media blitz with reviews. It just wasn’t a big enough change in our opinion to make it a new product.


This is the same basic method that we use to meet supply with our memory which works very well for us. Please keep in mind, that we are selling a specification, not a specific PSU platform. This is analogous to selling a speed grade specification and not a specific IC in the case of memory modules. With our PSUs, we are meeting or exceeding specification and also offering equal or better performance at or below previous prices.


Are you sending these out for review?

No, probably not. We have some new stuff in the works to meet the new EuP standards, and the –C units were honestly more of a stop gap. Since they’re a minor upgrade over the older TX series, we figured the best we could get from reviewers would be basically a lukewarm review (“Looks like a minor improvement on a 4 year old design!”) instead of the ringing endorsements we usually get (“This power supply is so beautiful it makes me cry with joy!”) I’m paraphrasing that last one a bit. But no, at this time we have no plans to send out the –C units.


How do I tell which unit I have?

You can tell which one you have by looking at the model number on the spec label. Highlighted in red below.

j5l6r8.jpg




Okay, so now what?

At the risk of sounding cliché, we learned an important lesson here. Even when we’re making an upgrade to a product and offering that upgrade for free, we’ll disclose that more clearly in the future. The last thing we want is for you guys to feel like we’re going out of our way to keep secrets and become some faceless corporation that doesn’t care what its customers wants.

Corsair isn’t a huge company bent on global domination through Machiavellian means. We’re just a bunch of dudes who like to build really fast computers, with really solid parts inside them. We build most of our parts for ourselves, based on specs of parts we’d like to be able to buy. When we started making PSUs, nobody was making PSUs that were good enough, in our opinion, so we specified our own.

Now, over four years later, there are more excellent choices than ever. All the competition has stepped up, and we know that you have a number of really good choices when it comes to choosing your next PSU. We still think that we offer the best part at each price point, but we aren’t perfect. We’re working to make each product better every day, and when you guys make demands or requests, we listen. We’re out here on the forums, even if we aren’t always posting, and we’re keeping an eye on the trends, on what you guys want to buy, and we’re dedicated to continue making rock solid parts at excellent price points.

So if you have any questions about the new TX versus the old TX, please post them here and we’ll get to them as soon as we can.

Thanks.
post #2 of 111
I think the real issue came when people found out that when you changed platforms, you lowered the interior build quality. Even in the name of improving performance, some people weren't too happy about that, especially coupled with the fact that it wasn't an announced change. Anyway, thanks for posting. smile.gif
Deep Blood
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 D0 (Batch # 3901A240) Foxconn X58 Blood Rage (non-GTI) eVGA GeForce GTX670 2GB 6GB Corsair Dominator 1.6GHz TR3X6G1600C8D Rev 3.2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD830 128GB / Seagate 640GB+1TB+2TB+4TB Samsung SH-S223Q 22X XTTH | OCZ Freeze | 9G1212H1011 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410f (rev. A02) Code 104 w/O-rings + Vortex doubleshot keycaps Antec HCPP-850 CaseLabs SM8 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G500 Sharkoon 1337 Asus Xonar DX + Swan D1080MkII08 + MXL Tempo Lifecam Cinema 
  hide details  
Reply
Deep Blood
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 D0 (Batch # 3901A240) Foxconn X58 Blood Rage (non-GTI) eVGA GeForce GTX670 2GB 6GB Corsair Dominator 1.6GHz TR3X6G1600C8D Rev 3.2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD830 128GB / Seagate 640GB+1TB+2TB+4TB Samsung SH-S223Q 22X XTTH | OCZ Freeze | 9G1212H1011 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410f (rev. A02) Code 104 w/O-rings + Vortex doubleshot keycaps Antec HCPP-850 CaseLabs SM8 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G500 Sharkoon 1337 Asus Xonar DX + Swan D1080MkII08 + MXL Tempo Lifecam Cinema 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp;11837844 
I think the real issue came when people found out that when you changed platforms, you lowered the interior build quality. Even in the name of improving performance, some people weren't too happy about that, especially coupled with the fact that it wasn't an announced change. Anyway, thanks for posting. smile.gif

To be honest, I'm not sure that we "lowered the interior build quality" in any meaningful way. If you could point out how we did that specifically, I can ask our engineers to quantify what those changes were, why they were made, and how they affect the longevity and/or failure rates of the product.

For those wondering - failure rates of TX series have remained consistent over the lifetime of the products, even after the PSHII update, and we've made changes to capacitors, fans, and other components as necessary as supply issues have crept up and/or manufacturing requirements have become more stringent.
post #4 of 111
http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/898000-corsair-tx-line-changed-secret.html

Post #48 shows the original TX750, so you can compare the photos in the first post to that.
Deep Blood
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 D0 (Batch # 3901A240) Foxconn X58 Blood Rage (non-GTI) eVGA GeForce GTX670 2GB 6GB Corsair Dominator 1.6GHz TR3X6G1600C8D Rev 3.2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD830 128GB / Seagate 640GB+1TB+2TB+4TB Samsung SH-S223Q 22X XTTH | OCZ Freeze | 9G1212H1011 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410f (rev. A02) Code 104 w/O-rings + Vortex doubleshot keycaps Antec HCPP-850 CaseLabs SM8 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G500 Sharkoon 1337 Asus Xonar DX + Swan D1080MkII08 + MXL Tempo Lifecam Cinema 
  hide details  
Reply
Deep Blood
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 D0 (Batch # 3901A240) Foxconn X58 Blood Rage (non-GTI) eVGA GeForce GTX670 2GB 6GB Corsair Dominator 1.6GHz TR3X6G1600C8D Rev 3.2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD830 128GB / Seagate 640GB+1TB+2TB+4TB Samsung SH-S223Q 22X XTTH | OCZ Freeze | 9G1212H1011 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410f (rev. A02) Code 104 w/O-rings + Vortex doubleshot keycaps Antec HCPP-850 CaseLabs SM8 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G500 Sharkoon 1337 Asus Xonar DX + Swan D1080MkII08 + MXL Tempo Lifecam Cinema 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 111
Excellent post OP

<3 Corsair
So Confused
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
IN B4 BAN THE 
Hard DriveOptical DriveMonitorKeyboard
OCN SUCK BALLS Saitek Eclipse II 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
CAN SUCK Razer Abyssus Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
So Confused
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
IN B4 BAN THE 
Hard DriveOptical DriveMonitorKeyboard
OCN SUCK BALLS Saitek Eclipse II 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
CAN SUCK Razer Abyssus Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp;11838073 
http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/898000-corsair-tx-line-changed-secret.html

Post #48 shows the original TX750, so you can compare the photos in the first post to that.

I'm not seeing it. Aside from the smaller heatsinks (not necessary with the more efficient PSH II design) I'm not seeing really what you're saying as far as the slightly lower build quality.

But I'll crack a couple of them open in the lab next week and see what you mean by looking at them in person. I'm home for the weekend holiday so I can't check anything until next week.
post #7 of 111
I'm glad you posted this. There needed to be an official response thread.




Just like to clarify why we're accusing the PSHII models of having lower build quality:
- Much smaller heatsinks (more prone to overheating)
- Less robust transient filter (one fewer coil, one pair less Y-caps, think there are a couple other fewer)
- Single layer PCB (instead of 2 or 3 layer)
- Less primary side capacitance (lower hold-up time, etc.)

There's also the fact that the +12V rectification is done by six parts instead of two. This means the odds of one part failing are three times greater; but if one does fail the damage will be less than with just two. So we'll call that one even.
post #8 of 111
This was much needed corsair, thank you. But in all honesty, changing the platform on which a unit is based is a big deal, at least to us enthusiasts it is. Not notifying anyone because it wasn't considered to be a big deal, is still underhanded, no matter how you phrase it.

Will this deal over the tx series make me want to buy a different companies psu? No.

Am I concerned about the future of corsair? Yes. Products being downgraded(cx series), gaming psu's being released(gimmicky), and shady platform changes doesn't inspire my confidence in your company.

EDIT: Just to let you guys know though, even though it seems like I am a corsair criticizer, I am actually a huge fan of your power supplies, I do think you guys make the best psu's out there for the enthusiasts needs. I just don't like the direction you guys are going with a few things.
Edited by Behemoth777 - 12/30/10 at 9:58pm
Ryzen Build
(14 items)
 
Fiance's Rig
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 @ 3.8ghz ASUS ROG Strix B350-F ASUS ROG Strix RX 580 8GB @ 1480mhz Team T-Force Night Hawk RGB 2x8GB (coming soon) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
SanDisk X400 512GB (custom enclosure) WD Blue 1TB | Raid 1 Deepcool Captain 240 RGB Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic XG2701 Turbot Mechanical Keyboard EVGA SuperNova P2 650w NZXT S340 Elite 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Deathadder Chroma Glorious PC Gaming Race Pad 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @ 4.6ghz ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 MSI HD 7850 2GB @ 1ghz Mushkin Ridgeline Series @ 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 520 Series Western Digital Caviar Black Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi W/ Xigmatek Purple LED Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
ViewSonic VX2370SMH-LED Rosewill Capstone 550w BitFenix Neos Window Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
Ryzen Build
(14 items)
 
Fiance's Rig
(12 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 @ 3.8ghz ASUS ROG Strix B350-F ASUS ROG Strix RX 580 8GB @ 1480mhz Team T-Force Night Hawk RGB 2x8GB (coming soon) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
SanDisk X400 512GB (custom enclosure) WD Blue 1TB | Raid 1 Deepcool Captain 240 RGB Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic XG2701 Turbot Mechanical Keyboard EVGA SuperNova P2 650w NZXT S340 Elite 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Deathadder Chroma Glorious PC Gaming Race Pad 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @ 4.6ghz ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 MSI HD 7850 2GB @ 1ghz Mushkin Ridgeline Series @ 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 520 Series Western Digital Caviar Black Cryorig H7 Quad Lumi W/ Xigmatek Purple LED Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
ViewSonic VX2370SMH-LED Rosewill Capstone 550w BitFenix Neos Window Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129;11838166 
I'm glad you posted this. There needed to be an official response thread.

Just like to clarify why we're accusing the PSHII models of having lower build quality:
- Much smaller heatsinks (more prone to overheating)
- Less robust transient filter (one fewer coil, one pair less Y-caps, think there are a couple other fewer)
- Single layer PCB (instead of 2 or 3 layer)
- Less primary side capacitance (lower hold-up time, etc.)

There's also the fact that the +12V rectification is done by six parts instead of two. This means the odds of one part failing are three times greater; but if one does fail the damage will be less than with just two. So we'll call that one even.

Thanks for the detailed comments - I'm not a PSU engineer, just the apps guy who uses them and helps define the specs, but I'll pass your comments on to one of our engineers and post his comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemoth777;11838237 
This was much needed corsair, thank you. But in all honesty, changing the platform on which a unit is based is a big deal, at least to us enthusiasts it is. Not notifying anyone because it wasn't considered to be a big deal, is still underhanded, no matter how you phrase it.

Will this deal over the tx series make me want to buy a different companies psu? No.

Am I concerned about the future of corsair? Yes. Products being downgraded(cx series), gaming psu's being released(gimmicky), and shady platform changes doesn't inspire my confidence in your company.

EDIT: Just to let you guys know though, even though it seems like I am a corsair criticizer, I am actually a huge fan of your power supplies, I do think you guys make the best psu's out there for the enthusiasts needs. I just don't like the direction you guys are going with a few things.

I completely understand where you're coming from - but keep in mind that we're trying to expand our product line into multiple new areas while maintaining the quality and reputation of our main product lines (TX, HX, and AX).

I've been here almost 7 years now - and I'm pretty sure that if we listen to you guys, you'll tell us what products you want to buy, and then we'll build them.

So if you want your voice to be heard, feel free to post away and send PMs and whatnot - it's impossible to make everybody happy, but I've got a significant hand in cases, coolers, and power supplies, which means that you guys have that same power. Any time you want to make a comment, I'll guarantee I'll read it if it's sent to me.
post #10 of 111
is there other unites u changed without informing the customers ?

im a CORSAIR FAN but do hate when i been lied too
if i were to look for reviews for the TX i would find only the original series reviews for the TX
im not so sure the new unites can really take the glory of the older once without showing what they capable off

thank you ,

P.S. how am i to know that the unite i use now is the same i saw in a review i read about it ?
trust is something needed to earned and easily destroyed !
Edited by shadowk - 12/30/10 at 10:47pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Power Supplies
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › Corsair TX series changes - what we did, why we did it, and how it affects you.