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Corsair TX series changes - what we did, why we did it, and how it affects you. - Page 6

post #51 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
And for those concerned with CX430 not putting out 430W, that's completely untrue. It does exactly what's spec'd on the label - at up to 30C temperatures.
If you for some reason have a lot of +5V based hardware, without actually having a completely +5V-based build.

Even if the primary side components are capable of it (though they'd appear to be under stress with those ratings) a modern system won't be able to pull 430W from the CX430 because the +12V rectifying component would give out first, if protections didn't kick in to protect it.
post #52 of 111
I posted this on the other thread. Perhaps you didn't see it George.

Phaedrus says the rectifying bridge cannot put out 430W. The datasheet for said rectifying bridge is a bit confusing. Maybe you could get confirmation from the engineering team. I'm not quite getting it. To be honest, I think the bridge on the CX430 is probably capable of doing > 430W, but one part of the datasheet says yes, and the other says no.

Here's what I wrote:

I have a question regarding the diode bridge. I might have made myself look like a fool but the datasheet for the diode bridge is confusing the crap out of me. I've ran a couple of thermal resistance formulas and I'm not seeming to get the answer I'm wanting.

According to the datasheet:

Case temperature: 100C
Heatsinked: Yes
Current Output: 8A

Case temperature: 100C
Heatsinked: No
Current Output: 3.5A

If the case temperatures are both 100C, what difference does it make that it is heatsinked or not. Shouldn't they both have the same output if their case temperatures are the same?

I don't have enough information to accuse the Corsair team of their component selection now. Originally I thought it could only do 320W maximum but now I am confused. Because if it can in fact put out 8A, technically it can do about 750W...Then again, I have no idea what temperature it runs at either way.

Still...a 15A bridge isn't that expensive.

End Quote.
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post #53 of 111
A 5A@100C bridge should have been pennies more, and might have improved efficiency enough to earn it 80PLUS.
post #54 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
A 5A@100C bridge should have been pennies more, and might have improved efficiency enough to earn it 80PLUS.
Yes. It is true. But I am confused as to what the actual datasheet is saying. A LOT of manufacturers use the GBJ1506. They are however, usually heatsinked. But, the point is, if it is capable of 8A unheatsinked @ 100C, then it's really not an issue. If it can only do 3.5A @ 100C unheatsinked, then that's a problem. Though I doubt it will be running at 100C (case temp), it still probably can't drive too much current and thus, less efficiency.

I would agree that it really cost so little for a couple more amps. I think Farichild Semi has a new rectifier line called DFB. They work up to much higher temperatures, put out loads of current, AND are in most cases, would be cheaper than some of the puny GBJs.

Even if you bought a part 0.10 more. You make 10,000 units. You are only down $1000. $1000 is just about nothing in regards to a big company.
Edited by TheLaw - 12/31/10 at 12:50pm
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post #55 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
To be honest, the big mistake with CX was probably just calling it CX while there was a previous CX in the channel. If we'd called it VS or JX or something, I don't think we'd see the complaints.

And for those concerned with CX430 not putting out 430W, that's completely untrue. It does exactly what's spec'd on the label - at up to 30C temperatures.
I disagree, The issue is that its a corsair PSU that does not live up to anywhere near the Corsair name.

And your last comment may be true. But then the question is this:
Is that a reasonable expectation for a PSU marketed to the average consumer? When you put it like that the way it comes across to me is:
"We made a crappy PSU for the average consumer so we gave it a really low thermal rating to make it ok when it performs poorly (or not at all) at loads approaching what we claim it can do at a thermal level it cant handle in the first place."

Coming from Corsair saying "It does exactly what's spec'd on the label - at up to 30C temperatures" is an excuse for incompetence/poor quality, and not an acceptable way of defending yourself against educated consumers.

That being said, major props for posting an explanation and being honest. While I take issue with the slight quality/reliability downgrade in a few areas I realize that performance increases and cost to manufacturer goes down. And that's a smart business move. I respect corsair a great deal, but not announcing a platform change even if its not going to be around for long or isn't really a downgrade overall is not cool as far as im concerned. Especially for a company as popular and well respected as Corsair.
Lets say the TX2 is coming out in march. And lest say you do a booming business in the TX750. Even if its only for 3 months, if you sell 15,000 of the new unit that's a lot of money and a lot of units sold. Thats 15,000 customers who deserve a review of the new unit they just bought and not its predicessor.

Ive really been struggling to recommend corsair to friends for several reasons but after this I definitely feel more comfortable recommending your PSUs. Still feeling very nervous though.
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post #56 of 111
Love Corsair. My original TX650w and H50 are awesome. Plan on grabbing the AX850w next build.
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post #57 of 111
Well, most of us knew that the tx series was amazing. I'm more concerned over the cx series.
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post #58 of 111
I wouldn't say it's "amazing" but indeed it is quite solid.
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post #59 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
Yeah, if the CX430 was labeled the CX350 or CX380 at most I wouldn't be too upset. As is, it's overrated.
At the same time, it is a budget level PSU so you can't really expect the CX430 to be the same as a Seasonic 430W because they are in completely different price ranges. Sure maybe it's not what some of us would expect from Corsair but it's still inline with the market.
post #60 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by NrGx View Post
At the same time, it is a budget level PSU so you can't really expect the CX430 to be the same as a Seasonic 430W because they are in completely different price ranges. Sure maybe it's not what some of us would expect from Corsair but it's still inline with the market.
This is true. An 430W S12II costs around $60, while the CX430 costs around $40.

In all honesty, I think there were definitley some things Corsair could have done to improve the CX430, but I don't think it's that much of a failure.

The CX400 was easily a $60 unit, but people bought it at such reduced prices, like $30-40. So when the CX430 comes along and retails at $40, people will compare it to the CX400 which was constantly on sale for around $40 or less.

However, $20 is a lot when you refer to power supplies. They could have packed that thing with goodies and marketed it at $60...But, the CX400 was known for its lower prices and thus Corsair wanted to make it an affordable unit...and be able to make money of it.

I doubt Corsair made much money off the CX400, atleast at the end. So, it makes sense. If you compare it to other 400-450W power supplies within the same price range, you won't find too much better. Antec Basiq, Thermaltake TR2, Rosewill Green Series. The CX430 is better than some of them and maybe not quite as good as others. But you can see, there really isn't a super duper $40 400W supply on the market. And if Corsair would like to stay in business, they'll have to make money.
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