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LLC vs VCORE? (BSOD) Appear! - Page 2

Poll Results: What is the Best/Safe for Gaming/Daily Use?

 
  • 42% (3)
    LLC Off - Vcore 1.4-1.41
  • 28% (2)
    LLC Level 1 - Vcore 1.39-1.4
  • 28% (2)
    LLC Level 2 - Vcore 1.38
7 Total Votes  
post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLinky View Post
I'll let you guys hash out where your idle and load voltages land, but if rubema has HT on and speedstep+dynamic vcore off, LLC on/Vdroop off isn't much of an issue.
So, LLC On in my case is almost the same of LLC Off. Please correct me??
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post #12 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubema View Post
So, LLC On in my case is almost the same of LLC Off. Please correct me??
no, he was saying that it is perfectly safe for you to use llc.

i have had the same issue as you in the past. with llc off i was stable at 1.33vcore, but with llc on i was stable at 1.3 vcore. thats a .03 difference.

i have run dozens of stability tests and have found that with or without llc it takes the same voltage for a single overclock to be stable. this does not mean that your bios vcore will be the same. but rather the load vcore will remain the same. the only real difference is your idle vcore.

llc=lower idle vcore, no llc=higher idle vcore.\\

also llc will push your vcore HIGHER than what is set in the bios. for example, i have my vcore set to 1.33 in the bios, and when i run a stress test the vcore will jump to 1.37(according to cpuz).

but like i said, in the end with or without llc, your load voltage for any given overclock will be the same in order to remain stable. the only thing that differs is the idle voltage.

as far as different levels of llc, i would imaging the higher the level, the more it is increasing your load vcore.
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post #13 of 31
Vdroop/LLC explained.

Because the VRMs on our motherboards aren't perfect, they cannot change the supply of current to match the cpu's needs (when the cpu is changing load states) instantaneously. This means the cpu gets hit with out-of-spec voltage levels for a fraction of a second during load changes.

LLC off (aka Vdroop on) artificially raises the idle voltage and "droops" the load voltage to control the out-of-spec voltage levels (negative and positive voltage overshoots). This means the negative voltage overshoots don't affect your stability and the positive voltage overshoots don't harm your cpu.

With that said, the reason I previously said LLC on isn't very important is with HT on, SpeedStep off, Dynamic Voltage off and CxE off, your overshoots will be pretty small and you probably don't need LLC off/Vdroop on to compensate.
Edited by MrLinky - 12/31/10 at 2:25pm
 
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post #14 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains View Post
no, he was saying that it is perfectly safe for you to use llc.

i have had the same issue as you in the past. with llc off i was stable at 1.33vcore, but with llc on i was stable at 1.3 vcore. thats a .03 difference.

i have run dozens of stability tests and have found that with or without llc it takes the same voltage for a single overclock to be stable. this does not mean that your bios vcore will be the same. but rather the load vcore will remain the same. the only real difference is your idle vcore.

llc=lower idle vcore, no llc=higher idle vcore.\\

also llc will push your vcore HIGHER than what is set in the bios. for example, i have my vcore set to 1.33 in the bios, and when i run a stress test the vcore will jump to 1.37(according to cpuz).

but like i said, in the end with or without llc, your load voltage for any given overclock will be the same in order to remain stable. the only thing that differs is the idle voltage.

as far as different levels of llc, i would imaging the higher the level, the more it is increasing your load vcore.

Thank you for explaining..
I just tried to turn LLC off totally and raise the vcore to 1.4, with cpuz the voltage is (1.36) and my idle temp is better than with LLC ON.

Also i tried 5 run's with LinX at 50% of memory i noticed that my Load Temp is better than with LLC at least with 5-9c decrease.

So what did you End with your case. LLC ON or LLC Off?
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post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubema View Post
Thank you for explaining..
I just tried to turn LLC off totally and raise the vcore to 1.4, with cpuz the voltage is (1.36) and my idle temp is better than with LLC ON.

Also i tried 5 run's with LinX at 50% of memory i noticed that my Load Temp is better than with LLC at least with 5-9c decrease.

So what did you End with your case. LLC ON or LLC Off?
well i use llc for the higher overclocks and off for the lower overclocks. most will tell you that this is dangerous. but i havent had any problems.

also as far as your temps being better this could be 1 of 2 things: with llc enabled your bios vcore voltage is too high, or you havent stressed it long enough and it could be unstable.

i at first thought with llc off i would have better temps, but as it turns out the only reason my temps were lower was because my vcore was too low and it was unstable after 12 hours.

so with my lowest stable vcore with llc=78c load temp, and my lowest stable vcore without llc=78c load temp.

after you have fine tuned everything with both llc on and off, you will discover that infact in either situation the temps will be about the same.

took me weeks to figure all this out. i guess in the end its all personal preference whether or not you decide to use llc.
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post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains View Post
well i use llc for the higher overclocks and off for the lower overclocks. most will tell you that this is dangerous. but i havent had any problems.

also as far as your temps being better this could be 1 of 2 things: with llc enabled your bios vcore voltage is too high, or you havent stressed it long enough and it could be unstable.

i at first thought with llc off i would have better temps, but as it turns out the only reason my temps were lower was because my vcore was too low and it was unstable after 12 hours.

so with my lowest stable vcore with llc=78c load temp, and my lowest stable vcore without llc=78c load temp.

after you have fine tuned everything with both llc on and off, you will discover that infact in either situation the temps will be about the same.

took me weeks to figure all this out. i guess in the end its all personal preference whether or not you decide to use llc.

Below is my Fast Stress with LinX.

1.4vcore LLC off




1.387vcore LLC Level 2




1.393vcore LLC Level 1





And one more thing please, what do you consider my OC?
Edited by rubema - 12/31/10 at 3:26pm
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post #17 of 31
Anandatech wrote that article a long time ago and we have had this discussion, basically VRMs have come A LONG WAY IN THE LAST 5 YEARs, his article is old and there is no transient overshoot with proper Loadline Calibration. Right now the way Gigabyte does it is have a GPIO control LLC and the Load Line equation for the analogue ISl PWM, what this does is give yoru board the ability to handle LLC like a Digital PWM would.

Please people we have moved far intot he future, stop believing Anandatech's lies, just liek his stupid article about the c300, the guy hasn't graduated college yet. I can read VRD 11.1 as well, it is different from LGA 775, LGA 1156, and LGA 1366, LLC is no longer harmful.

BTW dude I have done an analysis of LLC on Gigabyte boards with 3 levels of LLC control, the link its in my Signature, I know what I am talking about.

FYI here is worst case wtih transient overshoot.

No LLC= set in bios 1.3, under load =1.25 overshoot to return to 1.3v is .05v or 50mv.

So with that as maximum overshoot, with LLC= 1.3v set in bios, .1v droop which woudl be 1.29v load with transient OVERshoot of 50mv=1.29+.05=1.34 max overshoot, but this doesn't ever occur on new better systems.

FYI Gigabuyte has perfected the analogue VRM design with the help of Vishay Semiconductor and Interstill and iTE and their engineers, take alook at one of my articles read a section of VRM design.
Edited by Sin0822 - 12/31/10 at 4:33pm
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post #18 of 31
In my experience, I have usually been able to achieve better OCs, or the same OC with slightly less load voltage, with LLC disabled.

I'd take a given, stable, OC with .1v higher idle voltage, but .01v lower load voltage any day.

I would imagine that some boards released in the last few years have VRMs capable of handling LLC without pronounced overshoot, but I am not convinced the majority of boards, or even my own primary board, are among these.
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post #19 of 31
LLC is the better option, as you can keep vcore slightly lower - and lower vcore = lower core temp.

You just want to make sure your vcore and llc combined keep your system stable.

I'd much rather 1.375V + LLC then a mainboard with no LLC and have to run 1.45V vcore
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post #20 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-nefer View Post
I'd much rather 1.375V + LLC then a mainboard with no LLC and have to run 1.45V vcore
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