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[HWC] Corsair Launching Gaming Audio Series SP2500 2.1 PC Speaker System - Page 12

post #111 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
Maybe the button isn't displayed unless it detects an IP from the US?
That sucks. Guess eBay is the way to go.
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post #112 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtBigRig View Post
yay re-branded speakers.. I dunno why but it looks like if i scratch at the logo long enough the word logitech would pop up
Believe it or not these are not re-branded speakers, these are developed from the ground up, each driver, amp, and enclosure specifically and independently sourced. I understand if you don't like the looks, or the price or the specs, but at least give us the benefit of the doubt that we did our due diligence during development.
post #113 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
Believe it or not these are not re-branded speakers, these are developed from the ground up, each driver, amp, and enclosure specifically and independently sourced. I understand if you don't like the looks, or the price or the specs, but at least give us the benefit of the doubt that we did our due diligence during development.
see this is your problem
using logic

we should be able to fully express our opinions and god like reviews before even seeing these products in person, let alone, you know TRY the friggin things out.
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post #114 of 142
Hey CorsairGeorge, can you give us some insight as to why you guys went with the bandpass sub design?

It's known to be the muddiest sounding, so it's a bit of an oddity when you guys seem to be so focused on giving us quality. Was it because of the minimal power requirements?
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post #115 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
Hey CorsairGeorge, can you give us some insight as to why you guys went with the bandpass sub design?

It's known to be the muddiest sounding, so it's a bit of an oddity when you guys seem to be so focused on giving us quality. Was it because of the minimal power requirements?
I'm not the audio engineer or the PM - but I forward your question onto them and will post the response here when I get it.
post #116 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
I'm not the audio engineer or the PM - but I forward your question onto them and will post the response here when I get it.
Awesome. Thank you!
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post #117 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
Hey CorsairGeorge, can you give us some insight as to why you guys went with the bandpass sub design?

It's known to be the muddiest sounding, so it's a bit of an oddity when you guys seem to be so focused on giving us quality. Was it because of the minimal power requirements?
You can Occam's Razor this one.

A bit of background here: most PC speaker systems use a simpler design called bass reflex; it's your garden variety cube with an outward-facing driver and a port. It's a perfectly fine design -- our also-new SP2200 also uses it -- and a well-designed bass reflex subwoofer can sound very nice.

But with the SP2500, we weren't going for "perfectly fine" or "very nice." We're going for a system that will be a new reference standard for PC audio. One way to do that is to cure the ills of many high-powered PC speakers -- way too much distortion in the bass, and (to our ears, at least) too much crossover/phase distortion.

A fourth-order bandpass system has a driver mounted into a sealed chamber, firing into a separate, ported chamber. The ported chamber creates an acoustic filter (hence the "bandpass") which passes along only a select range of frequencies.

As you mentioned, it's more efficient, so you get more volume with less power. It also adds less distortion (again, a huge issue in PC speakers) and better transient response -- things like gunfire, drum solos, and the like. The sound is cleaner and more detailed because it's coming from only one source -- the port. With bass reflex enclosures, sound is coming from both the driver and the port, so you can see why this can lead to transient response issues.

I just got back from CES, where I demoed the SP2500 to what seems like a metric squillion people. One of my favorite demos was to play Van Halen's "Everybody Wants Some" or that perrenial audio demo favorite, the live version of "Hotel California." We'd turn the volume and sub up to nearly 100% and amaze people with the amazingly clean attack and punch of the percussion. The drums in the live Hotel California sound amazing on a good audio system, and Van Halen did a really good job in recording their drums -- on the SP2500, you sound like you're in the studio with Alex Van Halen. Drums are much more than a bass instrument... they go into the mids, and the details are there if you have the right gear. On some other high-power PC speakers on the market, those drums on the Van Halen track sound like they may as well have been synthesized after listening to them on the SP2500.

As for the "it's known to be the muddiest sounding" -- well, certain people just know what they know, and if you know it and know it well, then I won't try to convince you otherwise. Just note that the tight, clean bass has already been called out by reviewers as a highlight of the SP2500.

If you actually meant "I've heard some fourth-order bandpass subs and they sounded muddy," or "I've read that fourth-order designs have a reputation for being muddy," that's understandable. Here's why:
  • Fourth-order bandpass enclosures are tough to design well. Get it wrong, and it won't sound good. We designed ours well.
  • Car audio is a notorious offender here; it's a common design in that field and some of the boxes just sound bad. Thus, some folks assume that the concept, not the implementation, is at fault.
  • Because of the bandpass feature, the design has been used to mask less expensive or poor-quality drivers that have lots of distortion on the edges -- you can filter those out. Thus, some people assume that a fourth-order design is hiding a sub-par driver. By comparison, when you're desigining a bass reflex enclosure that's firing nakedly into the air, you can't get away with sourcing a poor-quality driver. As you can guess, for the SP2500 we used a really nice driver anyway.

Again, there are some folks that just KNOW that fourth-order enclosures sound bad -- that's the thing about audio; opinions run pretty strong. You can't build a system that meets everybody's preconceptions, so it's best to just build a system that sounds great.
post #118 of 142
Man.. no matter how or who design a 4rth order bandpass box or laser cut, etc that design have a very narrow frecuency response (with high SPL on it) by itself PERIOD thats the way it is and its not a opinion..

if they sound "muddy" or not its another thing, but you cant argue about that
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post #119 of 142
I'm glad Corsair are expanding. They have really good quality products and their customer support is outstanding. Keep it up, Corsair.
post #120 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAVO View Post
Man.. no matter how or who design a 4rth order bandpass box or laser cut, etc that design have a very narrow frecuency response (with high SPL on it) by itself PERIOD thats the way it is and its not a opinion..

if they sound "muddy" or not its another thing, but you cant argue about that
You're correct -- that's the purpose of the bandpass filter. It allows only a certain range of frequency ranges through. This reduces distortion, by trimming off the edges of the driver's output that have unacceptable distortion. When you're designing a speaker system as a whole (as opposed to selling a standalone subwoofer), then you can pay careful attention -- as we have -- to the crossover to reduce crossover/phase distortion. This has been a big problem with many PC speaker systems on the market that use bass reflex or passive radiator (one manufacturer calls these "pressure driver") subwoofers along with full-range satellites. They're liable to exhibit serious crossover phase distortion, which can cause drop-outs in the low-mid range.

I believe that many PC speaker vendors prefer bass reflex designs because their wider range allows the subwoofer to do more of the work. This allows you to save cost on the satellites, at the risk of distortion at the crossover. With the SP2500, the subwoofer does its proper job: reproducing the bass range. That's why many 2.1 systems will sound unacceptably tinny when you turn off the sub; by comparison, the SP2500 operates as a pretty decent 2.0 system when the sub is muted.

As I mentioned earlier, a simpler bass reflex + full-range satellite design is perfectly fine for most people -- our SP2200 does it very well. But it wasn't good enough for the SP2500. Once you understand that the SP2500 is meant to be a reference standard and not a "me too" product, our design choices may become more clear.
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