Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › PSU Certification -- Interest?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

PSU Certification -- Interest? - Page 3

post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post
I kind of was thinking along of the same lines for a brownout here. Kool.
Oh right. How could I have not thought of that. Good point. I'd say as long as it will work with 90V, I don't care if it is efficient or not. A 90V input will probably not be prolonged.
Unlawful
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon II X4 620 ASUS M4A785G-M EVO XFX ATI HD4650 4GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Samsung 830 Seagate Barracude 7200.12 Samsung F3 1TB Windows 7 Home x64 
PowerCase
Seasonic M12-II 430W Modular Cooler Master Elite 332 
  hide details  
Reply
Unlawful
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon II X4 620 ASUS M4A785G-M EVO XFX ATI HD4650 4GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Samsung 830 Seagate Barracude 7200.12 Samsung F3 1TB Windows 7 Home x64 
PowerCase
Seasonic M12-II 430W Modular Cooler Master Elite 332 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCCstudent View Post
I would like for you to describe any advances in techniques used with the P/S's. Something along the line of "P/S xyz uses the old but time tested (fill in the blank) technique of rectification, or filtering, or regulation. Perhaps you describe when and if some new addition to an old technique is used.
That's more review territory than certification.
post #23 of 32
All the items on the list are of interest as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
It would only certify that the PSU passes ATX specs or certain arbitrary limits.
It's the arbitrary limits part that I think may be problematical.

I'd be happy with just ensuring that all relevant specifications and/or performance figures for each PSU model are stated in publicly available documentation, and that actual retail products meet those published specs.
Blue(s) Power
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 Asus P6X58D-E MSI Twin Frozr II R6870 OC x2 CrossFireX HyperX KHX1600C7 3X2 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Crucial C300 64GB - WD Black 1 TB SATA III (X2) Win 7 Pro X64 Corsair HX850 Corsair 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
Blue(s) Power
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 Asus P6X58D-E MSI Twin Frozr II R6870 OC x2 CrossFireX HyperX KHX1600C7 3X2 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Crucial C300 64GB - WD Black 1 TB SATA III (X2) Win 7 Pro X64 Corsair HX850 Corsair 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by denydog View Post
I'd be happy with just ensuring that all relevant specifications and/or performance figures for each PSU model are stated in publicly available documentation, and that actual retail products meet those published specs.
You mean... PSU manufacturers actually make their PSU's performance match the label on the box?

Corsair did that with their CX430, labeling it as "rated at 30°C." Look where it got them.
Main home rig
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5-3570K ASRock Z77E-ITX GeForce GTX 670 8GB Samsung DDR3 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Intel 330 240GB SSD, Crucial M4 256GB mSATA SSD... Samsung DVDRW CoolIt Eco Windows 7 Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung 305T Plus, Dell 2005FPW Cooler Master QuickFire Pro mechanical keyboard Rosewill Capstone 450W Lian Li PC-Q11B 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech MX518 Allsop Metal Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver, Polk bookshelf speaker... 
  hide details  
Reply
Main home rig
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5-3570K ASRock Z77E-ITX GeForce GTX 670 8GB Samsung DDR3 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Intel 330 240GB SSD, Crucial M4 256GB mSATA SSD... Samsung DVDRW CoolIt Eco Windows 7 Home Premium x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung 305T Plus, Dell 2005FPW Cooler Master QuickFire Pro mechanical keyboard Rosewill Capstone 450W Lian Li PC-Q11B 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech MX518 Allsop Metal Onkyo TX-SR505 receiver, Polk bookshelf speaker... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 32
the only test i'm interested in is whether Phaedrus2129 would use that PSU in his own rig

(certification idea sounds very useful)
Winter Heater
(9 items)
 
 
HTPC
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600K GIGABYTE GA-H61M-S1 Galaxy GTX 460 768MB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 2x4GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingPower
64GB ADATA S596 Turbo SSD WD Green 1TB Antec Kuhler H2O 620 IN WIN Commander 650W 
Case
COOLER MASTER RC-690 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 1055T  ASUS M4A87TD EVO XFX Radeon HD 5850 1GB AMD Performance Edition DDR3 1333 2X2GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingPower
32GB ADATA S596 Turbo SSD WD Blue 500GB Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B OCZ Fatal1ty 550W  
Case
COOLER MASTER HAF 932 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon II x2 240 ASROCK M3A770DE POWERCOLOR HD 4850 1GB G.SKILL F3 DDR3 1600 2x2GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingPower
32GB Adata S596 Turbo SSD SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 1TB Scythe Big Shuriken 2 rev. B Cooler Master Elite Power 460W 
Case
COOLER MASTER Elite 360 
  hide details  
Reply
Winter Heater
(9 items)
 
 
HTPC
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600K GIGABYTE GA-H61M-S1 Galaxy GTX 460 768MB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 2x4GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingPower
64GB ADATA S596 Turbo SSD WD Green 1TB Antec Kuhler H2O 620 IN WIN Commander 650W 
Case
COOLER MASTER RC-690 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 1055T  ASUS M4A87TD EVO XFX Radeon HD 5850 1GB AMD Performance Edition DDR3 1333 2X2GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingPower
32GB ADATA S596 Turbo SSD WD Blue 500GB Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B OCZ Fatal1ty 550W  
Case
COOLER MASTER HAF 932 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon II x2 240 ASROCK M3A770DE POWERCOLOR HD 4850 1GB G.SKILL F3 DDR3 1600 2x2GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingPower
32GB Adata S596 Turbo SSD SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 1TB Scythe Big Shuriken 2 rev. B Cooler Master Elite Power 460W 
Case
COOLER MASTER Elite 360 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 32
Phaedrus, Is the type of description I cited normally described in a review? My last electronics course was in 1986 but I still like to read about P/S techniques, I wish OCN had an electronics/electricity sub-forum but I realize not a lot of people are interested in that level of description. You are are real asset to OCN and you also do a good job at directing people in regards to P/S purchases.
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCCstudent View Post
Phaedrus, Is the type of description I cited normally described in a review? My last electronics course was in 1986 but I still like to read about P/S techniques, I wish OCN had an electronics/electricity sub-forum but I realize not a lot of people are interested in that level of description. You are are real asset to OCN and you also do a good job at directing people in regards to P/S purchases.
The Power Supply forum is about as close as you are going to get for an electronics sub-forum. A little bit of electronics knowledge is necessary for understanding them. I would personally be interested in an electronics forum. (Psst...I'm working on my own switchmode power supply. )

A lot of things have changed since the 90s when computers might draw a measly 100W or less. More efficient layouts, new switching transistors etc.
Unlawful
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon II X4 620 ASUS M4A785G-M EVO XFX ATI HD4650 4GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Samsung 830 Seagate Barracude 7200.12 Samsung F3 1TB Windows 7 Home x64 
PowerCase
Seasonic M12-II 430W Modular Cooler Master Elite 332 
  hide details  
Reply
Unlawful
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon II X4 620 ASUS M4A785G-M EVO XFX ATI HD4650 4GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Samsung 830 Seagate Barracude 7200.12 Samsung F3 1TB Windows 7 Home x64 
PowerCase
Seasonic M12-II 430W Modular Cooler Master Elite 332 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 32
Law, thanks for directing me to the best i am going to see here about electronics. i find even the basics to be quite interesting, studying more advanced concepts would demand time I do not have. My 1986 training was what ITT was offering at the time, lots of good stuff covered but expensive training. I must say it has server me well even in my main job description of auto mechanic.+rep
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 32
I'm trying to understand here... what exactly is the goal for instituting such a certificate? What do we want to achieve with this, and what would this certificate mean to PSU consumers when they see it on the PSU box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
The idea would be to do something on the same level as JonnyGURU or HardOCP, or more, but only the technical data provided and on a pass/fail basis, no rating system. And there would be a logo that could be printed on product packaging or label similar to the 80PLUS logo.

It would only certify that the PSU passes ATX specs or certain arbitrary limits. It would not say that one unit is better than another, though you could look at a unit's results and come to that conclusion yourself.
Could you elaborate on the first bolded part? Maybe you could draft an example of how "technical data" would be provided "on a pass/fail basis"? And where would this information be located? I don't understand how the presence of data alone infers or quantifies a pass/fail without explanation.

As for the second bolded part, why would we want to do that (certify to ATX specs)? Or perhaps, why would we need to do that? Are you implying that this is not already being done (adequately)? I just don't know enough about the current "situation" to warrant such an endeavor. What exactly is our motive?

I do follow this subforum daily--only the interesting threads therein--but the question just seems kind of sudden. I do understand that the consumer PSU market isn't regulated well (or at all?), so I can understand the desire to hold PSU companies to a higher standard than 80Plus. Perhaps you could add some illumination to this discussion by explaining which industry-regulated tests a PSU must pass these days to be made available to the consumer market?

And as for ranking the tests mentioned in the OP, shouldn't you be asking trusted and proven PSU experts, perhaps an elected panel, instead of an open forum? Wouldn't you guys know what's safe, what's recommended, what's most important, and what's desirable? I can understand if your intention is to determine what the average, uninformed person deems is important so you can put the greatest emphasis on that, but still... I value the opinions held by reputable PSU experts over a group of relatively unknown users.

Regardless, I think the two most important aspects of a PSU to the average consumer are (1) "is this enough power?", and (2) "will it blow up?" IMO, answering those two questions would be more valuable to the average consumer than the actual task of taking voltage measurements, irrespective of how those results may be mutually dependant. And I know this is diverging from responding to the OP, but I do feel that I am staying in-line with the purpose of this thread. I'm not at all sure how #1 can be tested and the information delivered to the consumer without creating a new Standards organization or some such undertaking. The combinations of computer components are nearly endless, so creating a catalog for all those configurations is neither practical nor feasible.

What I think is feasible, however, would be to certify or a grade a PSU for generation-/tier- based (i.e., CPU sockets & architecture, GPU ?model line & architecture?) system configurations since the average consumer doesn't have a clue about power requirements. Shouldn't be too hard to place a few logos (or a bigger logo) or little table on the PSU box indicating that the PSU can handle all stock CPU + mobo configs, every single GPU solution at minimum, 2 GTX 570s or the AMD equivalent, or 3 HD6970s or the nVidia equivalent (I know less the further I go with this...), and listing the approximate power draw at the wall (or wherever is best) for those configs. As for #2... I guess certifying the PSU as outlined for #1 also certifies that it shouldn't blow up (overload?) or fail as a direct result of the likely power draw of the certified maximum configs.

I guess that puts the Short Circuit Prevention and Overloading tests first, but I imagine build quality must also come under scrutiny. I guess build quality could be judged on a general pass/fail grade given elements like redundancy, capacitor quality, solder quality, and whether or not the other components selected could theoretically handle the marketed continuous load (short name for that is???). Again, even a qualitative measurement of build quality can be used to propose a maximum load/safe system config. For example, a company like Linkworld or Diablotech markets a PSU for 700W@50C peak... our logo wouldn't dispute their claim, but we would only recommend an i3 with a single 5770 and whatever power draw that would be. Maybe Linkworld refuses the evaluation, ok... but consumers would eventually (hopefully) see the AX-1200 with the i7-980x and three GTX580s on it and might finally understand... Since this OCN, I imagine a separate index for overclocked components could also be included, where tests indicating high performance stability like Ripple Suppression, Voltage Regulation, and Transient Load Response would also matter.

I hope that I explained myself and my ideas properly. Again, I know that my response isn't really what was intended, but I had some issues understanding the intent of the OP so I made due.
Not Enough
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte P55A-UD4P Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X 4GB (Original) 2x2GB DDR3-1600 G. Skill Eco 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x512GB Transcend 370 | 1x3TB Toshiba | 1x3TB... LG 18x something... Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B Windows 7 Professional x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411Z BenQ G2412HD Cooler Master Quick Fire Ultimate (Browns) XFX 750 Black Edition 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec 902 Logitech G502 Steelseries 4HD Creative X-Fi Titanium 
  hide details  
Reply
Not Enough
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-860 @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte P55A-UD4P Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X 4GB (Original) 2x2GB DDR3-1600 G. Skill Eco 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x512GB Transcend 370 | 1x3TB Toshiba | 1x3TB... LG 18x something... Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B Windows 7 Professional x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411Z BenQ G2412HD Cooler Master Quick Fire Ultimate (Browns) XFX 750 Black Edition 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec 902 Logitech G502 Steelseries 4HD Creative X-Fi Titanium 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
Would you be interested in seeing a PSU certification that tested for the quality of the PSU, its adherence to ATX specifications, and other such things? Similar to the 80PLUS certification or UL listing, but more comprehensive.

If so, please rank these tests in order of importance to you.


Voltage Regulation
Ripple Suppression
Efficiency
Low Load Efficiency (EUP)
Start-Up Transients
Transient Load Response
Hold-Up Time
90VAC Input Performance
Short Circuit Protection
Overloading test
SCP (1)
Ripple (2)
VREG (3)
Transient (4)
Overload (5)
Startup (6)
Holdup (7)
Efficiency (8)
Low Load (9)
90VAC (10)

If I had to rank them, this would be it.

But I'd love to see all tests made mandatory on PSUs.
T8
(17 items)
 
T6
(17 items)
 
T5
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core™ i5 2400 @ 3.0 ASROCK Z68 Pro 3 M AMD Radeon HD 6950 Shader Unlocked, @ 900/1400 2x KVR1333D3N9/4G 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
2x KVR1333D3N9/2G Plextor M5S 128GB Western Digital Caviar GreenPower WD5000AACS Western Digital Caviar WD2500JS 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LiteON iHAS324 DVD-RW DL Thermaltake Water 2.0 Pro w/ AVC DS12025B12U Windows 7 Home Premium x64 Dell Ultrasharp U2211H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Rapoo V500 (Kailh Yellow) FSP Aurum AU-400 400W 80PLUS Gold CoolerMaster Silencio 352 CoolerMaster Storm SPAWN 
Audio
Fenda F&D H200 2.0 USB Powered 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i3 2100 @ 3.0 ASROCK Z68 Pro 3 M AMD Radeon HD 5770 1GD5 (Reference) 2x KVR1333D3N9/4G 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
2x KVR1333D3N9/2G Transcend SSD370 128GB WD Scorpio Blue WD7500BPVT Samsung SH-223C 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Thermaltake Water 3.0 Performer-C AKASA Ball Bearing Windows 7 Home Premium x64 Dell Ultrasharp U2311H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Armaggeddon Strike Eagle MKI-3 (Kailh Red) Dell (Foxconn) F320EM-00 320W 80PLUS Gold CoolerMaster Elite 341 CM Storm SPAWN 
Audio
Dell USB Powered 2.0 
  hide details  
Reply
T8
(17 items)
 
T6
(17 items)
 
T5
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core™ i5 2400 @ 3.0 ASROCK Z68 Pro 3 M AMD Radeon HD 6950 Shader Unlocked, @ 900/1400 2x KVR1333D3N9/4G 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
2x KVR1333D3N9/2G Plextor M5S 128GB Western Digital Caviar GreenPower WD5000AACS Western Digital Caviar WD2500JS 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LiteON iHAS324 DVD-RW DL Thermaltake Water 2.0 Pro w/ AVC DS12025B12U Windows 7 Home Premium x64 Dell Ultrasharp U2211H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Rapoo V500 (Kailh Yellow) FSP Aurum AU-400 400W 80PLUS Gold CoolerMaster Silencio 352 CoolerMaster Storm SPAWN 
Audio
Fenda F&D H200 2.0 USB Powered 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i3 2100 @ 3.0 ASROCK Z68 Pro 3 M AMD Radeon HD 5770 1GD5 (Reference) 2x KVR1333D3N9/4G 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
2x KVR1333D3N9/2G Transcend SSD370 128GB WD Scorpio Blue WD7500BPVT Samsung SH-223C 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Thermaltake Water 3.0 Performer-C AKASA Ball Bearing Windows 7 Home Premium x64 Dell Ultrasharp U2311H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Armaggeddon Strike Eagle MKI-3 (Kailh Red) Dell (Foxconn) F320EM-00 320W 80PLUS Gold CoolerMaster Elite 341 CM Storm SPAWN 
Audio
Dell USB Powered 2.0 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Power Supplies
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › PSU Certification -- Interest?