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post #101 of 114
I'm not sure he understands quite how the SOGA works. It isn't really ever taken to a major court because it's pretty much leak proof. The furthest it'll get is small claims court and without going to your local court and asking for example cases (that's if they are public), the court numbers won't be on the net. It's an act used and exercised by the public when talking, writing or emailing retailers. Very, very rarely does SOGA ever get to a proper court (looking around I see a few cases from the 80's & 90's).

If I went back to the game store and said "this game won't allow me to join servers, I would like a refund", that would be me exercising my rights to a refund under the Sales of Goods Act 1979/2002, under the particular clause of "must be fit for purpose".
post #102 of 114
In NZ, we have the Consumer Guarantees Act, which is essentially the same thing.
Most retailers (big international ones) will try and screw you at every corner, but generally, as soon as you mention the Act, they all shut up and start co-operating.
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post #103 of 114
I've read the Sales of Goods Act. I'm ignoring the people who are quoting it out of context. We're talking software here and nothing more. We're not talking car parts or Nvidia "hardware". I'm only questioning the Sales of Goods Act from a software perspective. Some of you are really digging hard to prove a false point.

So if we all join the same page again and think from the standpoint of software, let's jump in the software rabbit hole shall we? (P.S. your discriminations towards me may alter your ability to see truth and reason so pretend I didn't write this)

Games and software for the most part have always come with minimum requirements. It's just a basic guideline to follow. The thing is - us gamers and enthusiasts like to push our hardware to blow minimum requirements out of the water. Crysis is still discussed today as a bench to test our beloved hardware and software configurations. Still with me? Can't really argue that can you? Well, here is a question: how "do" we push our hardware and software? We do little things that in time add up for overall performance increases. That's why we're all here isn't it? To discuss the finer details and accomplish better/smoother performance? We all seem to do this by moding, tweaking, voiding warranties etc etc. We love it and that's why we're all here. In fact forums like this exist on the basis of moding, tweaking, voiding warranties, increasing performance etc etc. By now your probably thinking I'm taking this down a warranties path but no, I'm not going to try and argue that voiding your warranty will directly inhibit your ability to get a software refund. It's just another cog in a bigger machine. Please, read on! During our quests for better performance we run into problems and issues with our hardware and software... Why is that? It's because we're all running different software and hardware. Take a moment and think about the amount of hardware out there. All the different "sig rig" configurations here on the forum. The amount of hardware at your local shop. The amount of hardware at your closest large retailer, the online store, the international online store you order from because the part(s) you want aren't in your country.

So we establish and agree there is a vast amount of hardware out there right? Well now let's think of a refundable "cash" or "bug".

You can always define what a crash is but you can't always determine if it was a developer mistake or something we ourselves have done to or own software and hardware. If getting full refunds for faulty software was practiced daily not only would we get a list of minimum requirements, we'd need a FULL list of ALL the hardware and software used and all their settings during testing and debugging. Only then and under the given list of testing hardware/software used (with settings) could a developer error be refunded. Even if that were the case then who's to prove you actually have the hardware and software (at the specified settings) suggested by software companies, testers and debug team?

Some developers acknowledge bugs very quickly and some are even made aware of bugs AFTER the disc's (and what not) have been manufactured but not sold. If a bugs discovered during the shipping phase the developers have updates waiting for launch day.

The truth is there are just too many hardware and software combinations (with settings) available on the planet to determine the cause of crashes if not already announced by the developers themselves. Some of which care and some don't. This idea to be fully refunded if a piece of software doesn't work on your specific machine and specific set of settings is a Utopian idea! The idea of getting a refund after buying a game only to realize it's buggy and crashes on your hardware and software (thats more then likely been tweaked or moded).

Truth is there will always be massive amounts of hardware of all ages available for us to play with and tweak. It's what we do. But to say you deserve a refund because a developer missed a bit of code out of thousands of lines of it is ridiculous. Tennis for two isn't around anymore. Games are becoming bigger and bigger and including more and more content. It takes a lot of space to make a game pretty, let alone a good story. There's obviously going to be issues and bugs. There always have been.
    
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post #104 of 114
Dude, ignoring your post entirely. You're saying we can't do something that our government clearly thinks we can. Seriously, why are you still posting?
    
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post #105 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Dude, ignoring your post entirely.
I'd expect nothing more I guess.
    
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post #106 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damarious25 View Post
I'd expect nothing more I guess.
I did read your post, and I'm still not entirely sure of the point you're making.

Can you be precise? Ideally in 3 lines or less.
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post #107 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cepheus View Post
I did read your post, and I'm still not entirely sure of the point you're making.

Can you be precise? Ideally in 3 lines or less.
I got a FULL refund from steam for "Far Cry".

The ONLY reason they gave me a refund was because they had all my system info and log files but still couldn't come up with a solution.

That is a long process retailers can't do (to study your system logs to determine the cause of a crash, which would KILL the game business because retailers would have to hire a lot of extra staff to filter, process, and study systems logs of peoples machines who claim a game made it crash).
    
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post #108 of 114
This is an amazing find, thank you.... Now where did i put my mirrors edge...
post #109 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damarious25 View Post
I got a FULL refund from steam for "Far Cry".

The ONLY reason they gave me a refund was because they had all my system info and log files but still couldn't come up with a solution.

That is a long process retailers can't do (to study your system logs to determine the cause of a crash, which would KILL the game business because retailers would have to hire a lot of extra staff to filter, process, and study systems logs of peoples machines who claim a game made it crash).
What the hell is your point? You're going way overboard and you actually have NO IDEA what you're talking about. You're a fine one to talk about people ignoring your posts. I've told you, Alexuk has also told you exactly how the act works and how it protects statutory rights.

VVV READ MY POST VVV

Here's the thing. Retailers cover their backs every single time you buy a PC game by saying "are you sure this will run on your system?" which places the "As stated" part of the SoGA on the buyer. So, you can't return a game under the SoGA because of insufficent system requirements.

Retailers don't need to have a computer science team to test games and I think you're under the misconception that people are going to be able to walk into stores and return the game (which I've already god damn told you is not going to happen) by quoting the Act.

For one, evidence shall be all over the internet, two, the problem will have to occure for damn near everyone. All they'll testers will need is a decent PC and internet connection.

Here's a given situation:

Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 has just been released three days ago. The entire PC community is unable to go online and play against each other because they cannot load the server list due to a flaw or bug within the games code.

Some people will simply wait for a patch to arrive to fix the problem (most people, in fact, agree?) Others are within their rights to writeto, e-mail or call their retailer and ask for a refund and the retailer is obliged to give them that refund.


The retailer is also, then, within rights, to return those copies back to the publisher, for a full refund as well. It works both ways.

This is not going to crush the British game retailer industry.

You would NOT be under rights to return a game that crashes on you and you have a unique problem. It could be anything, as you say, and they are not really under any onus to test out every single configuration you may have, nor consider your overclocks etc. All the retailer needs to do is install the game on a PC that meets the requirements and run it properly. If it runs, the problem is your PC and not the game. At most they might ask for a save file and dxdiag (to make sure you're not lying about your specs)


Also, consider consoles such as the 360 or PS3. They're all the same. If a game is released that crashes the console at a particular point because of an obvious bug, this is going to widespread and everyone, again, is going to experience this. Clear cut bug/flaw and I don't see why, if you don't want to wait for the patch, you shouldn't get a refund.




This is not going to do a damned thing to the industry except make publishers take longer to release on UK shores as they polish a title, or have them include patches on the disc (as most already do) And this won't affect you, seeing as you're in Canada. So, what's your big deal and why do you still post despite having a clear lack of understanding?

Edited by Viridian - 1/5/11 at 3:35am
    
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post #110 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by itzhoovEr View Post
Now where is my refund for black ops pc
haaa i did that, returned it to EB games, but its still registered on my steam. win
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