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[CVG]Buggy game purchasers 'entitled to refund' - Page 10

post #91 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damarious25;11869301 
They can't amend laws, the government does that. That's my point. I'm not familiar with the judicial system over there but I assume it's pretty close to the Canadian one seeing how we're a pretty good copy.

They are not amending the law - they are simply stating that the law that is already on the books is fully applicable in this case.

The Canadian judicial system is pretty infamous for creating their own laws, without intervention of legislators - and they do it all of the time. They will even toss out actual laws that are on the books, and replace it with their own dreck, based on their own personal biases or on the payola that special interests shoveled into their pockets.

Canada is also a poor example because our laws concerning "consumer protection" are retrograde, and are a half century behind other civilized nations. For instance, they finally got the wherewithall to enact legislation that requires manufacturers to recall defective goods for safety reasons - before, all "recalls" were "voluntary" - now at least we can get things fixed that have been entirely fixed in other countries like forty years ago.
post #92 of 114
They'd need to define which kinds of bugs constitute a refund. Maybe games ship with hundreds of very minor bugs that many players will either rarely notice, or notice but won't care about. The bugs that deserve attention are bugs that cause the game or machine to crash, bugs that prevent proper installation, bugs that prevent game progression, etc...
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post #93 of 114
^^^
Certainly. Major bugs that cause system crashes, freezing, and prevent game play should have full refunds. Minor, non-critical bugs should be remedied through free updates, and perhaps media exchange when it comes to games that run direct off of the media (and thus, can not be properly updated).

It's like anything - they shouldn't be allowed to sell you garbage that entirely fails. However, I think game companies have traditionally been far better at addressing these problems in general: better and more thorough testing of software, replacement or bug patches for problematic bugs, better customer service, and longer service life.

This, when compared to other application categories, where major bugs are solved with some new release that is costly, not only in the requirement to purchase the update, but in costly hardware upgrades that they generally demand. Some software looks like it was never even tested, it is like "oh, that compile did not yield any major errors, it's ready to release"; or upgrades that get saddled with tons of bloated but broken "new features". In that, I think game makers are ahead, because generally, the new versions are new games or at least, new scenarios; rather than just some bloated gee-gaws that make the software unusable.
post #94 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1Joeno1;11858390 
This is about the UK right?

Ayee
    
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post #95 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon;11874294 
They'd need to define which kinds of bugs constitute a refund. Maybe games ship with hundreds of very minor bugs that many players will either rarely notice, or notice but won't care about. The bugs that deserve attention are bugs that cause the game or machine to crash, bugs that prevent proper installation, bugs that prevent game progression, etc...

Worst come to worst, you'd have to argue your case in a Small Claims Court. So, before you should return a game because it's buggy, try to work out whether the bugs are impeding some of the advertised features. If they are you can get a replacement.

So, the game crashing on an unadvertised side quest might not be returnable, but on part of the main quest in a critical section would probably be.

As a hardware side-note, you could get your money back for a PS3 if you used OtherOS when Sony removed that feature. I remember reading about Amazon being forced to give refunds (sometimes only partial).
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post #96 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damarious25;11868297 
Aaaaaand you've missed the point.

cheers.gif

Aaaaaand you clearly have no idea about who Trading Standards are or what the SoGA really it.
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post #97 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon;11874294 
They'd need to define which kinds of bugs constitute a refund. Maybe games ship with hundreds of very minor bugs that many players will either rarely notice, or notice but won't care about. The bugs that deserve attention are bugs that cause the game or machine to crash, bugs that prevent proper installation, bugs that prevent game progression, etc...


WEll, before 28 days the onus is on the retailer to prove it doesn't work, and...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cepheus;11875637 
Worst come to worst, you'd have to argue your case in a Small Claims Court. So, before you should return a game because it's buggy, try to work out whether the bugs are impeding some of the advertised features. If they are you can get a replacement.

So, the game crashing on an unadvertised side quest might not be returnable, but on part of the main quest in a critical section would probably be.

As a hardware side-note, you could get your money back for a PS3 if you used OtherOS when Sony removed that feature. I remember reading about Amazon being forced to give refunds (sometimes only partial).


I imagine it would only apply to games that literally work, run or play. Like GTAIV didn't at first, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck5000;11876064 
Aaaaaand you clearly have no idea about who Trading Standards are or what the SoGA really it.

Yep!
    
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post #98 of 114
Ok, before I go quote crazy I must ask all you law graduates to please provide me with case numbers where people have gotten a full refund under "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)."

ANYONE? ANY CASE? Didn't think so.

I wish I was there to shoot the video of ANY of you going into a retail store and crying "I want my money back because this game doesn't work" and when they say "Sorry, no refund unless the disc itself is faulty" for you to start ranting about "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states blah blah blah."

That my friends is rubbish and I doubt ANY of you have the balls to even try it.

Until you come up with some facts and cases where this has actually happened then stop acting like your law graduates working in the system.

Some people quoted me but failed to quote the most obvious point... Why? Because it's easier to leave out the FACTS like the FACT no one is able to provide any information on this actually being a law. Again, before you quote that last line please provide me with case numbers where people have gotten a full refund under "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damarious25;11866577 
EDIT: If there was a major loophole in an Act that allowed the return of games or software purchased I'm sure it would have been fully exploited during the games boom of the 80's or LONG since patched up by the bigger software companies.
I mean any game or piece of software that's buggy or unfinished can be returned?! That means every OS ever purchased should have been returned. If you buy Windows and a security update comes within the first 30 days you'd have a retail nightmare because everyone would be running to get their money back.
    
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post #99 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damarious25;11878123 
Ok, before I go quote crazy I must ask all you law graduates to please provide me with case numbers where people have gotten a full refund under "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)."

ANYONE? ANY CASE? Didn't think so.

I wish I was there to shoot the video of ANY of you going into a retail store and crying "I want my money back because this game doesn't work" and when they say "Sorry, no refund unless the disc itself is faulty" for you to start ranting about "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states blah blah blah."

Just to let you know, the newer Sales of Goods 2002 adds to the 1979 act and makes it more relevant. I've sent a small claims court notice to a business quoting the SOGA 1979 in order to get a refund. 99% of the time, it's an act that can be quoted in official letters and works most of the time.

So, you don't have to go to court to get a full refund under SOGA, people use it everyday in formal complaints. I mean, when I did it, it was Overclockers.co.uk refusing to refund me postage on a faulty mouse. So, I took legal advice from DirectGov and sent out a SOGA 1979/2002 template letters and alas, a week or two later, money comes back. SOGA isn't just used in court. Any time you get a refund, you're exercising your rights.

Just a quick googled example of the act being used was: "Scott and Scott v/s Blade Motor Company 1997"
post #100 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damarious25;11878123 
Ok, before I go quote crazy I must ask all you law graduates to please provide me with case numbers where people have gotten a full refund under "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)."

ANYONE? ANY CASE? Didn't think so.

I wish I was there to shoot the video of ANY of you going into a retail store and crying "I want my money back because this game doesn't work" and when they say "Sorry, no refund unless the disc itself is faulty" for you to start ranting about "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states blah blah blah."

That my friends is rubbish and I doubt ANY of you have the balls to even try it.

Until you come up with some facts and cases where this has actually happened then stop acting like your law graduates working in the system.

Some people quoted me but failed to quote the most obvious point... Why? Because it's easier to leave out the FACTS like the FACT no one is able to provide any information on this actually being a law. Again, before you quote that last line please provide me with case numbers where people have gotten a full refund under "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)."

What an idiot!

You STILL don't understand it, do you? Oh, what's that?! A Canadian doesn't understand British law? Wow, well I never!
Oh and IT IS A LAW! No-one has to prove anything to you about this being a law, because it already is one and has been for 32 years!

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/the-sale-of-goods-act/
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/

^ Information for you.

http://www.nvidiadefect.com/

^ People claiming FULL REFUNDS under the SoGA.

Case numbers?! These don't go to crown court, you know? They go to a small claims court. Which is basically a bunch of women handling papers and onces a day a county court judge approves or disapproves various papers. I know this because as a nipper I did work experience at my local county court (Fun Fact: I divorced 3 people with my divorced stamp!) IF the judge approves your "case" you are informed by writing and so are the offending company and no sooner do the court papers arrive on your desk do you receive a phone call telling you about your refund!


I don't think there has been a single person who has claimed under the SoGA for software. Most probably because they didn't know you could. However, Trading Standards (a government body. Notice the .gov.uk domain suffix?) just confimed that you CAN claim under the SoGA. So whether or not YOU think it can be done is totally irrelevant, because you can. FACT.


Anyways, well done on complete and utter ignroance!
    
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