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[Believe3D] 3D TV among the biggest tech failures in 2010 - Page 6

post #51 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
True, but there is the fact that TV broadcasts are only 30fps, right? What benefit does 120Hz give in that case? How is displaying the same image four times per second better than twice per second?

Speaking about TV here obviously, not games. (Although even in games, I am a firm believer that anything higher than 60fps is pointless for 99.999% of gamers.)
I sometimes forget we're talking about TV's (it is a computer website after all).

In the case of TV it would be (IIRC) 24fps for NTSC and 25fps for PAL. Also, film has inherent pre-determined motion blur (because of it's nature, it's not interactive like a game) so it appears smooth at that rate.

I also wholeheartedly agree about games. It is completely unnecessary for the majority of people, but that doesn't mean the benefit doesn't exist. For myself, playing UT competitively, the difference is huge...
    
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post #52 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_hax View Post
In the case of TV it would be (IIRC) 24fps for NTSC and 25fps for PAL. Also, film has inherent pre-determined motion blur (because of it's nature, it's not interactive like a game) so it appears smooth at that rate.
NTSC is 29.997fps. (Why they didn't just make it 30fps is a mystery to me.) It's film that is 24fps. And interactivity isn't what prevents games from having motion blur, it's just the nature of light and exposure in a camera vs. drawing a 3D scene one frame at a time in a game.

But my point was that, at 60fps, every game I have ever played looks super smooth to me, always has since we first started talking about fps back in the DOOM days. I know there are people that claim they can see, and enjoy actual gaming benefits from, 100+ fps. Okay, whatever...while I'm not going to flat out say those folks are imagining things, I will say that I'm skeptical that such frame rates make a practical difference to 99.99% of the gaming public. It would be an interesting research project for someone to take random sample of people, have them play games at varying (and unknown to the player) frame rates, and measure any differences in actual gaming results.
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post #53 of 126
Good. I agree. I feel no pity for all the fools that were so excited to buy their $2,500 3D TV, and have actually USED the 3D feature for... Avatar. 3D = gimmick. Leave it for the theme park experience.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 1/3/11 at 1:40pm
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post #54 of 126
Until they can make one that does not give me a headache and not make me feel sick in an hour I will pass.
post #55 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post
Seems to me the people hating on 3DTVs fall into 2 groups:
1. Broke
2. Eye problems

If these were cheap, consumers would be all over it, and just because those with health problems (bad eyesight, glasses etc) can't use it doesn't mean it sucks. I have both money and good eyes, and I think it's neat. I have one, I don't use the 3D much for lack of content, but when I do it's awesome. Plus these are better than most TVs just as 2D.

The only problem with these at this point is lack of content, that's it. This is new tech, it's not meant for broke ass people, get over it.
Funny, because I have both good eyesight (20/19) and the money for one, but you don't see me lauding it. 3D is the epitome of a gimmick when it comes to TV's.
post #56 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_hax View Post
Ugh this again... you are so very, very wrong.
NO HE'S NOT VERY WRONG. HE'S not even A LITTLE BIT WRONG. HE'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

Let me give you an example. Take a snake. Put it in a refigerator for an hour. Let it out when it's temp hits about 40 degrees. Now. Walk around the snake. The snake will only SEE you about one time every 1/2 second. You could literally play hide and go seek with it by disappearing in between when it's able to see you. You can simulate this in a game. Play any game with your video card super declocked and cpu super declocked until you get down to 2 frames a second. That's EXACTLY the experience the snake is having at those body temps.

Now go to the opposite end of the spectrum. Hummingbirds do not see other hummingbirds like we see them. They can actually see each others wings flapping. We can't we have to take high speed video which is about 120 to 250 or higher frames per second and slow it down to where our BRAIN can process it before we can have their experience.

So as I said. He's the opposite of wrong here. He is RIGHT. And you can logically figure this out just by watching high speed videos on youtube. So go experiment and verify for yourself.
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post #57 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hephasteus View Post
NO HE'S NOT VERY WRONG. HE'S not even A LITTLE BIT WRONG. HE'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

Let me give you an example. Take a snake. Put it in a refigerator for an hour. Let it out when it's temp hits about 40 degrees. Now. Walk around the snake. The snake will only SEE you about one time every 1/2 second. You could literally play hide and go seek with it by disappearing in between when it's able to see you. You can simulate this in a game. Play any game with your video card super declocked and cpu super declocked until you get down to 2 frames a second. That's EXACTLY the experience the snake is having at those body temps.

Now go to the opposite end of the spectrum. Hummingbirds do not see other hummingbirds like we see them. They can actually see each others wings flapping. We can't we have to take high speed video which is about 120 to 250 or higher frames per second and slow it down to where our BRAIN can process it before we can have their experience.

So as I said. He's the opposite of wrong here. He is RIGHT. And you can logically figure this out just by watching high speed videos on youtube. So go experiment and verify for yourself.
This exactly. This is why your typical films are only 24.xx frames per second. Do you see anything choppy in movies? No. When it comes to gaming, 23fps is horrible due to the latency between your GPU/other components as well as the API I assume?

As long as games are constantly above 40fps, they're as perfectly smooth as anyone's game that gets over 100.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 1/3/11 at 2:05pm
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post #58 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
It would be an interesting research project for someone to take random sample of people, have them play games at varying (and unknown to the player) frame rates, and measure any differences in actual gaming results.
It's not necessary. Simply view 100fps video at both 100 fps and 60 frames per second. You'll notice a difference because your brain will drop frames. View 250frames per second video. You know you've never seen all that detail because some of the videos show things you've experienced like balloon bursting.
100fps would be perfect for a cat. Which is super high metabolism compared to human. They burn acidic. Their muscles are full of acid. Their urine is full of acid. They sleep alot to conserve energy because of how high thier metabolism is. Unfortunately a cat can't see high resolution. If they knew how to read they couldn't resolve the text. But you can put them in a small room pass something by them at 1/100th of a second speeds and they'll react to it. They can operate in the 31 to 40 ms range where as we operate in the 200 ms range.
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post #59 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
This exactly. This is why your typical films are only 23.xx frames per second. Do you see anything choppy in movies? No. When it comes to gaming, 23fps is horrible due to the latency between your GPU/other components as well as the API I assume?
Rofl. Both of you are terribly wrong and his example is pitiful.

Film is fine at 24fps because the shutter is open for a certain length of time. All light captured during that time is combined to make one frame, resulting in blur.

Games are rendered with each frame crisp and don't have the 'advantage' film does. For example - you can't suddenly turn the character around on a movie, can you? The whole thing is prerecorded.

Take a look at this link. I highly doubt you see zero difference between 30 and 60fps. The same difference exists between 60 and 120 - unfortunately most of you don't have a panel capable of rendering it. http://eapdesign.vndv.com/fps/


EDIT: Hephasteus, I'm really not sure why you're blabbing on about cats and snakes... it has nothing to do with framerate.
Edited by i_hax - 1/3/11 at 2:06pm
    
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post #60 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_hax View Post
Rofl. Both of you are terribly wrong and his example is pitiful.

Film is fine at 24fps because the shutter is open for a certain length of time. All light captured during that time is combined to make one frame, resulting in blur.

Games are rendered with each frame crisp and don't have the 'advantage' film does. For example - you can't suddenly turn the character around on a movie, can you? The whole thing is prerecorded.

Take a look at this link. I highly doubt you see zero difference between 30 and 60fps. The same difference exists between 60 and 120 - unfortunately most of you don't have a panel capable of rendering it. http://eapdesign.vndv.com/fps/


EDIT: Hephasteus, I'm really not sure why you're blabbing on about cats and snakes... it has nothing to do with framerate.
Well I retract, but to kindly prod for your rude opening line, I did say I was only assuming what I meant in my example.
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