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[Examiner] GeoHot releases PS3 key, asks for job from console makers - Page 12

post #111 of 179
I think Sony might have a huge opportunity here. Think about the iPhone... that thing was hacked in days but still made Apple profits simply because it's so damn easy to get content for it. Sony needs to step up their game with providing content for the PS3. In light of the App Store coming to OSX, I think Sony could benefit from following the same model.
 
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post #112 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
If you think figuring out a key is so easy... then you really don't know much about encryption. The keys are NOT the same as there are seed values. Again, the keys are not the same. Repeat again... the keys are not the same.

The formula to generate a key do use seed characters. You can get three of the values from the public key. However, there were two private seeds. One of the private seeds is this random number.... that wasn't random.

So... to figure out the formula used by Sony, you still need math skills.

Please read up on nondeterministic polynomial time problems and why they are so hard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-complete


Encryption is a type of computer/math problem that is VERY VERY hard to solve. Check the solution is relatively easy but getting to it is very hard.

If I gave you a few pages of numbers... asked you to figure out how the numbers are generated and what seeds were used.... how long would it take you to solve?

The Epic Fail on Sony part is they used a constant instead of a random.

The fail on many of here are that they don't understand cryptograpy and try to downplay the accomplishment of others. If you guys think you understand crypto, then go solve Kryptos. This 4-part puzzle sits next to the CIA cafeteria and tauts all of the CIA everyday. It still has not been solved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptos

Do you want to call the CIA stupid because they can't solve a puzzle even though they have been working on it for 20 years?
I'm not downplaying what was done here (at least entirely if you must). I congratulate the people who got the key right, because no one else did obviously with maybe the exception of Geohot who had this all claimed before anyone else.

I'm calling out the things that are being said though. Sure, Sony made a big mistake and it was stupid.
The people who did figure it out, great for them. Woo - finally someone did it. I know I certainly don't have the knowledge, nor skill, to do anything remotely close in comparison.
Fact doesn't change that Sony's stupid mistake still took how long for everyone to figure out.

I never said you don't need math skills to figure it out. Why you bothered to mention that I don't know. You spewed quite a bit which is already known to alot here, especially if you watched the video or anything in relation to the video in article form.

I know that the keys themselves are not the same, but rather the number used to generate them in the equation that is supposed to be random isn't really random. Hence the stupidity on Sony's part. I'm not denying it.
I do realize I said in one of my posts "ESPECIALLY when you consider how long it took them to figure out that it's just some key that is used every time." 7AM in the morning typing, I wasn't going to start spewing out explanations, detail, and constants. My bad. Still didn't change my point though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TFL Replica View Post
I haven't explicitly called anyone a fanboy but your replies are actually working against yourself. I know you're a big PS3 lover Omega, but I'm not addressing you so you can put that pitchfork down.
I know you're not addressing me, but regardless he didn't do anything to warrant the comment at that time. It would've made more sense to address me actually.

I do like the PS3, and Sony for that matter. But I'm not going to deny what they did was a "fail of epic proportions" (just to get away from epic fail lol).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt5 View Post
No..Watch the video ffs.
What part do you not understand!?!?

2 points that you disagree with:
1. That the hackers fail because they took so long
Some hackers try to hack PS3 since release, but MOST don't because otherOS is still there. Not a lot of motivation for the best hackers.

Sony gets rid of OtherOS. More hackers get in on the game.

Pause
This is the part where you start the clock for the real hacking to begin.
Play
Not entirely true.
I'd like to see the proof behind this if there is any.

The modding movement toward the PS3 was quite heavy before hand. And, infact, Other OS actually made the PS3 more vulnerable as Geohot proved. So if anything, the fact that something like this wasn't figured out and revealed before hand is even worse.

Quote:
Suddenly the timeline for the hacking of the PS3 took about as long as the Xbox360 did. Hmm, that is certainly NOT a failure of the hackers.
The 360's modified firmwares to play pirated games could be traced back to as early as June to November of 2005 when the console itself launched.

So not at all.

Ok, lets say I do humor you and downplay the timeline a tad.
The PS3 launched in November 2006. It's now 2011. That almost 5 entire years. The 360 was more or less figured out in less than a year, if not a little more publicly, directly following launch.
You cannot simply disregard 3-4 years of tinkering after launch just because Sony removed OtherOS spurring people to demand for the homebrew more. That's not right at all.

Quote:
I read your posts and you just don't understand.
Thats fine.

Point is anyone who says it wasn't an epic fail is pretty much wrong.
I don't believe what he's trying to say is that what they did wasn't stupid. He isn't ignoring that. He understands that. He just doesn't agree that the time that it took people to figure this out should be disregarded which you and Duckie keep on insisting.
You're not reading his posts entirely.
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post #113 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt5 View Post
I read your posts and you just don't understand.
Thats fine.


Point is anyone who says it wasn't an epic fail is pretty much wrong.
You didn't read my posts. Never once did I say Sony didn't have an epic fail with their code. I actually clearly said their fail was indeed epic. I also said, the "hackers" failed just as equally because even with such a failure on Sony's side, they were able to keep the system secure for over 4 years.
You just don't understand, that is fine.
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post #114 of 179
What you guys are arguing/debating/whatever about... is dumb.
 
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post #115 of 179
That's what they get for removing OtherOS... super lolz you think they would take that move back?
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post #116 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
I also said, the "hackers" failed just as equally because even with such a failure on Sony's side, they were able to keep the system secure for over 4 years.
You just don't understand, that is fine.
What are you basing this timeframe upon? What other console do hackers have complete control without workarounds or exploits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
Fact doesn't change that Sony's stupid mistake still took how long for everyone to figure out.
Yes, but you have no point of reference. You can't say this took too long or this was really quick. You could argue this hack was amazingly fast if you consider how long it would take via brute force. I don't believe any other console has been broken at this level.

Decryption isn't a linear relationship with man-hours. Someone might get lucky and break something in a week. ...or it might take decades. Even if the relative difficultly of the cipher are similar.

Again, I use the example of Kryptos. It sits next to the CIA cafeteria and hasn't been solved after 20 years. The world's best cryptanalysts and hackers sit by it every day.... yet, they still can't solve it.
Edited by DuckieHo - 1/5/11 at 9:44pm
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post #117 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
I also said, the "hackers" failed just as equally because even with such a failure on Sony's side, they were able to keep the system secure for over 4 years.

You obviously don't understand if you think the hackers failed. Watch the video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
What other console do hackers have complete control without workarounds or exploits?
I will just let DuckieHo keep fighting since he has already given the reasons why sony had an epic fail and the hackers did not have one many times....
Read his posts and see why you are wrong.


And OmegaNemesis28 misquoted me. I said the time taken for the hacking of the PS3 is similar to that of the 360 if you start the clock at the time that Sony removed the otherOS. The hackers that found this mistake even say they started when Sony removed OtherOS in the video.

And btw, you guys realize you are cheering on the multi billion dollar company that was thwarted by some hackers? I am sure Sony really appreciates the support and you will be getting your PS4 in the mail any day now.
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post #118 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
You didn't read my posts. Never once did I say Sony didn't have an epic fail with their code. I actually clearly said their fail was indeed epic. I also said, the "hackers" failed just as equally because even with such a failure on Sony's side, they were able to keep the system secure for over 4 years.
You just don't understand, that is fine.
It doesn't matter if it took ten years to figure it out, once they figured it out it was an utter failure in cryptography. It's a complete failure such that they likely cannot patch it in any way, or even detect if somebody is using a hacked console at this point, because they keys people will be hacking with are completely legitimate. It's like if I broke into your house with a copy of your key. You wouldn't easily know how I got into the house, and you cannot just put up motion sensors, and put pit-bulls in the house to deter me, because it would prevent all software.

Yes, it took 4 years, but Sony got lucky. I guess another way of thinking about is: It wasn't that it took 4 years to crack that really means anything, it's that when it was cracked, it was blown wide open, not some small obscure crack that's hard to use and easy for them to detect.
Edited by lordikon - 1/5/11 at 10:28pm
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post #119 of 179
The thing that needs repeating is that before the OtherOS removal, it was just Geohot and a small community working on the PS3. Most people had written it off and given up until Sony got the bright idea of removing Linux. That really got the Linux community hot and bothered.
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post #120 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
Making your font really big doesn't hide the fact your reading comprehension skills match a 3rd grade child.
Go back and read my posts before you look even more like a fool. ffs, what part do you not understand!!?!?!oneone!11?!?!
Attacking grammar: The sign someone has no arguments left over, but doesn't want to lose face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamdam View Post
I like the Xbox's almost lag free online gaming compared to the "free" ps3 online gaming..
As someone who owns both consoles, there's no noticeable difference on the Internet when you play online.

Or there isn't for me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
The 360's modified firmwares to play pirated games could be traced back to as early as June to November of 2005 when the console itself launched.

So not at all.

Ok, lets say I do humor you and downplay the timeline a tad.
The PS3 launched in November 2006. It's now 2011. That almost 5 entire years. The 360 was more or less figured out in less than a year, if not a little more publicly, directly following launch.
You cannot simply disregard 3-4 years of tinkering after launch just because Sony removed OtherOS spurring people to demand for the homebrew more. That's not right at all.
This is complete and utter control over the OS, the 360 only has that with JTAG...And nowhere near this amount of control, unless Sony completely rewrites the kernels encryption (i.e. MASSIVE update), this means that every single firmware released for the PS3 will be able to be altered straight away, the PSP never even came this close to this amount of control.

And if a car has a problem with the brakes, but no-one finds it out for 50 years...It's still a fail on the behalf of the car company.
    
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