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[EXP] Samsung Announce First DDR4 RAM - Page 2

post #11 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldy View Post
Pfft, by 2015, your CPU's stock clock will already be much higher then 4.0GHz.
This. lol
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post #12 of 104
^^^ Not to say it wont happen, but what has the CPU speed done over the last 2-3 years... it has gone very slow up and gone to more cores. The heat (as seen with needing crazy water cooling in OC to maintain) that 4GHz+ makes and requires the stability of industry is going to need to be come a lot better, so we go beyond CPU to heat dissipation restrictions. In the last five-6 years we have gone from 2.6GHz or so for top un-overclocked speeds to 1 GHz faster the i7980 or X4 970 AMD are the two highest stock clock CPU’s (or the 1100T with Turbo Core) only being 1 GHz faster? But the cores have increased by 6… I see a lot more cores and software actually being written to utilize the cores then per say a large push for faster speeds. But things will get faster.
With memory getting larger and faster perhaps they can have some on MB non-volatile Memory for OS load built into memory modules/lanes so the CPU will have just as fast of access to the OS or other key programs as the DRAM.
They need to come out with a 939 Socket board so my 2.4GHz CPU can have equal speed memory.
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post #13 of 104
release date? Would be nice to have all new toys when ivy bridge will come out.
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post #14 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magus2727 View Post
^^^ Not to say it wont happen, but what has the CPU speed done over the last 2-3 years... it has gone very slow up and gone to more cores. The heat (as seen with needing crazy water cooling in OC to maintain) that 4GHz+ makes and requires the stability of industry is going to need to be come a lot better, so we go beyond CPU to heat dissipation restrictions.
Rockwell will be 16nm... you really think heat will be that much of a problem by then? No.
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post #15 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prox View Post
Rockwell will be 16nm... you really think heat will be that much of a problem by then? No.
Heat will be even more of a problem then. The smaller the node the less heat the transistors can handle before breaking down. It won't be as much heat as we are used to today, but what we consider extremely low temps now, will be extremely high on smaller transistors. Think of a burning piece of wood. A 1 inch thick piece requires a lot more heat to ignite and start to burn than a little 1/8" twig.
Edited by Strat79 - 1/4/11 at 8:45am
post #16 of 104
I don't think clock speeds will climb very much over the 4GHz mark - they seem to be into cramming more cores for more bang. Plus, the stuff they had that was 4GHz wasn't very good - and ended up being outperformed by multi-cored variants of older designs at lower clock speeds, mostly because the 4GHz stuff belched out too much heat and regularly choked on itself.

Now that Samsung as DDR4 - I will feel better in sticking with DDR2 and skipping over DDR3 - since DDR4 will be the norm when these systems are ready for their next refresh/update cycle. Around here, DDR3 stuff is too expensive and too hard to find - while DDR2 stuff is being discounted in advance of Bulldozer and other developments.
post #17 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prox View Post
Rockwell will be 16nm... you really think heat will be that much of a problem by then? No.
heat will still be a problem... its safe to say that about 60-70% of heat is from the switching (other losses in gate/oxide, and such) so if your packing in more transistors and switching them faster you will always get more heat. the only advantage is with a smaller transistor (which the posted nm is not always the ful size of the transistor, usualy just the gate size) there is less capacitance so they just need to drive it less, but the switching loss will still be large.

The transition to smaller transistors does not get rid of the large heat factor.
the AMD X2 2.9GHz was a TDP of 65 Watts Thats two cores, assume 32.5 Watts per core on a 65nm tech. so lets compare it to an equal CPU of new tech.

Athlon II X2 270 - 45nm 3.4GHz but same TPD 65 Watts.

so with a 30% smaller transistor and a 14.5% increase of speed was obtained keeping the TDP equal.

Right now AMD X6 1075T is a 3.5GHz with 45nm tech and 95W TDP.

using equal convention of the above,

if this went to 19nm tech, that is 57% smaller Transistor, it can be assumed if the above is true about a 28% increase in speed. to keep the same TDP. 4.45GHz.

Thats if and when we gets to 19nm, in most cases I think a different architecture will be built. using Moore's Law, every two years the Number of transistors will double in the same area, we can assume that with an incease of over 50% in size to go from 45nm to 19nm (we have to remember production not a single lab making 1 chip every 4 months). will take about 3-4 years if not a little longer for it to be in the hands of the consumers. so say we will have 19nm dies in 6 years... I hope we have moved past DDR4 well before then...
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post #18 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat79 View Post
Heat will be even more of a problem then. The smaller the node the less heat the transistors can handle before breaking down. It won't be as much heat as we are used to today, but what we consider extremely low temps now, will be extremely high on smaller transistors.
The logic doesn't fit the reality. In digital switching circuits, transistors dissipate most of the heat when the transistor is in the transition between off and on. Higher clock rates ensure that the transistors are in analog mode for a greater duty cycle of time, because the on and off states are proportionally shorter.

However, a smaller transistor will be able to switch faster, will be able to attain completely on and completely off, meaning that the "analog" mode time is proportionally shorter. Smaller transistors will also require less power to be injected into the gate, meaning lower power, and hence, lower heat development within the device.

Smaller transistors have lead to much less case dissipation - even though they have been placing many, many more circuits onto a device - from multiple cores, to large caches, to large 64 and 80 bit registers, and so on. Each iteration of device development has brought about less power, while adding "more". Like a Athlon II, that will dissipate 65 W in the current generation, 95 W in the previous generation - compared to older Athlons that were more like 120-140 W devices but without multiple cores, and lacking all of the cache that the most modern iteration features.
post #19 of 104
You know when DDR3 was released I thought, great! Now I'll get higher speeds and unfortunately high latency. All that time I thought, "If DDR4 is released in 2011, I will cry". But to be fair I'm glad, it's a really neat piece of technology, low voltage but high clock speed.

Congrats to Samsung, bring on the motherboards.
Edited by lifes_good - 1/4/11 at 9:00am
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post #20 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
The logic doesn't fit the reality. In digital switching circuits, transistors dissipate most of the heat when the transistor is in the transition between off and on. Higher clock rates ensure that the transistors are in analog mode for a greater duty cycle of time, because the on and off states are proportionally shorter.

However, a smaller transistor will be able to switch faster, will be able to attain completely on and completely off, meaning that the "analog" mode time is proportionally shorter. Smaller transistors will also require less power to be injected into the gate, meaning lower power, and hence, lower heat development within the device.
I What are your refering to "analog" mode as? There is capacitance in the transistor that needs to be driven either low or high (digital) to turn on or off the transistor. As something switches faster the "transistion" time is the same the only thing that changes this is the difference in capacitance the driving circuit need to over come and time it takes to charge/discharge the transistor. SO yes if running at the same speed a smaller transistor will run cooler because the switch transition is faster.

The clock cycle will still run at the same duty cycle regardless of clock speed. a 1GHz signal a full period every 1ns will still have a switch from off to on and on to off, two switches per 1ns period.
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