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Fractal Design Arc Midi Tower vs Corsair Obsidian Series 650D - Page 13

post #121 of 156
Consideration for Corsair 650D:

change side window to mesh (4x120mm enermax tb silence fan as intake; controlled by internal fan controller)

i5-2500k cooled by H60 in drive bay push/shroud/rad/shroud/pull (gt ap15 as exhaust mb controlled)
remove upper hdd cage, the other one moved to bottom (@psu)
1st step one c300 256gb (or vertex 3 240gb), 2nd added later
+ one 1tb hdd
gb 570 (oc+windforce cooler)
reverse flow of the front 200mm fan to exhaust
= 280 m³ intake and exhaust (@12v)
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post #122 of 156
never seen that other one, but i always thought that the corsair cases feel cheap, like the aluminum that they use si so thin very easily bendable, that fractal case looks really rad, i would go with that, its very differnt cause of the lines in the metal, plus the fron is all metal so you could powdercoat the whole thing some wicked colors if you wanted to
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post #123 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushMore1205 View Post
never seen that other one, but i always thought that the corsair cases feel cheap, like the aluminum that they use si so thin very easily bendable, that fractal case looks really rad, i would go with that, its very differnt cause of the lines in the metal, plus the fron is all metal so you could powdercoat the whole thing some wicked colors if you wanted to
The only aluminum we use is for cosmetic purposes, and on the front panel of the case. If we had any structural aluminum in the chassis you can rest assured it would be significantly thicker and stronger.

The chassis are all painted or powder-coated steel, designed for rigidity.
post #124 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
The only aluminum we use is for cosmetic purposes, and on the front panel of the case. If we had any structural aluminum in the chassis you can rest assured it would be significantly thicker and stronger.

The chassis are all painted or powder-coated steel, designed for rigidity.
Just a few things I would like to mention:

First of all I think it is cool to have company reps on OCN. So thanks for being here!

Second of all I have seen a lot of complaints about the 650D and 600T. I think it is a lot of personal preference when it comes to what you need and aesthetics. I feel Corsair does a great job producing high quality products. And if they don't make it directly they go with the best guys out there they can (ie. Seasonic for PSU's). And it is obvious you guys are trying. When it comes to cases there are a lot of companies that have some years on you and have developed a loyal following so it will be hard to pull those people away.

Some of the biggest competitors must be CM, Lian LI, Silverstone, Antec, and a few others. Now there is a newer kid on the block continually expanding being Fractal Design. It only makes sense that people look at these two companies and see what they have to offer.

The way I see it FD has taken a slightly different approach to their lineups. So I don't see you guys competing directly with them in mind. However, I do believe you should be aware of them and the attention they are garnering. It helps you pickup on what people are looking for or impressed by to implement in future designs. You guys are both great case designers who each have their own drawbacks.

And I liken that mainly to fan design. What was FD thinking in their XL case with the top vent fan that is only slightly angled at the back? Testing has proven it is not doing much. Conversely I was considering the 600T and aside from aesthetics with how wide it is (cable managing) the fans are not that great. It would at least have been nice to let people put their own fans in and have options with it like dual 120mm in the front. You are talking about selling an enthusiast case to an enthusiast audience that often changes out fans anyway. I would be considering your case more heavily if the air cooling were better or there were more options to use my own fans like some Gentle Typhoons. My only other gripe is the fan controller doesn't do much for temps when turning it up. Several reviews point to this such as Bit Tech. I imagine water cooling with a 2x120mm radiator is nice though and I like how it is concealed. Many features with this case which is nice. I for one do like the ease of access of taking the side panels off, but perhaps smaller hinges or using the method employed in the 700/800D. Just some thoughts.

Speaking of the 700/800D series the price range they target are competing directly with two other heavyweights known as Lian Li and Silverstone. Lian Li is hard to compete with no matter what. They have so many modding options and readily available panels, etc. Plus they use great features with their cases and use aluminum as well which for me in a larger case is nice to have due to weight. I don't really think this does anything for cooling, but it is a nice feature. Silverstone has a very innovative system that many people like with the 90 degree motherboard design. It would be awesome if you took their idea a step further because I think you guys could do it better (not as many features or ease of use with cable management, nor are the wires sleeved, plus the top might use one more fan near GPU). I like the FT02 personally and am considering that as well as a Lian Li A70f. I would be considering the 700D except if I go air cooling there are no intake fans which has placed your case in the middle of the pack if you mount a fan in the bottom of the case. Water cooling seems optimal for the 700D.

Your cases are nice, but to me they have heavy competition in the brackets your cases were put in. I think your cases are awesome for water cooling as stated above. But those who want options with air cooling and better standard cooling need those changes. I think what would put you over the top are panel options (top, front, side) to compete more with Lian Li. If you do those things I see no reason why you guys could not be number one.

Good luck!
Edited by RoddimusPrime - 3/29/11 at 10:36am
post #125 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoddimusPrime View Post
Just a few things I would like to mention:

<snip>

Good luck!
Thanks man. Most of the stuff you guys see us selling today was designed a year ago or more. The 800D, for example, was designed through most of 2008 and 2009. Cases have a very long development lead time, and lots of money is spent in tooling. We've gone out of our way to determine what's popular and what people want, from a feature set standpoint, and we're learning every day.

The 600T and 650D don't have dual 120mm fan hole mounts in the front. I learned that's important to you guys, so I'll keep that in mind for future cases. We're going out of our way to learn what you guys want and build it. It just takes time. Nobody makes perfect case, but I think the 600T is pretty awesome for our 2nd chassis.

Fractal Designs is a very interesting company and we are not ignoring them. We have a number of their cases in our labs. You have to know your competition. I'm sure they also have some of our cases in their lab. And probably Cooler Master, Antec, Silverstone, etc.

I think we've got two different approaches, like you said. We started at the top and are filling in towards the middle and bottom price points. They started in the middle and are filling in upwards, it seems. I personally think their cases compete very nicely in their pricepoints for people looking for a standard, quiet chassis with very unassuming looks.
post #126 of 156
I'd just like to add how great it is having some of the company reps/designers on the forum, it's great of you to take the time to answer some of our questions!

Personally, I can't afford any of the Corsair cases, as they're like £125 for the 600T and £140 pre-order for the 650D, so they're not really competitive with the European based manufacturers (like Fractal).
I'm not sure what's going on with the pricing here, the 650D seems pretty well priced compared to the competition for its feature set etc, but the 600T seems overpriced here, considering the Arc Midi is predicted to cost around £75-85 I think? compared to £125 for the 600T.

Have you any idea why this is? Increased shipping costs..? At this price point it's competing with some of the fully aluminium Lian Li's, and other higher end cases. If the 600T was a bit more competitive here in the UK I would probably have bought one already! Also the price differential (~£15) between the 600T and 650D seems too little... basically the 600T seems too expensive to me, it's around double the price of the Coolermaster 690 II for example, and I don't see why..

(If pricing isn't your domain, which it may not be considering you design the cases it seems, then I'd appreciate your best guess anyway on this question )
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post #127 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
Thanks man. Most of the stuff you guys see us selling today was designed a year ago or more. The 800D, for example, was designed through most of 2008 and 2009. Cases have a very long development lead time, and lots of money is spent in tooling. We've gone out of our way to determine what's popular and what people want, from a feature set standpoint, and we're learning every day.

The 600T and 650D don't have dual 120mm fan hole mounts in the front. I learned that's important to you guys, so I'll keep that in mind for future cases. We're going out of our way to learn what you guys want and build it. It just takes time. Nobody makes perfect case, but I think the 600T is pretty awesome for our 2nd chassis.

Fractal Designs is a very interesting company and we are not ignoring them. We have a number of their cases in our labs. You have to know your competition. I'm sure they also have some of our cases in their lab. And probably Cooler Master, Antec, Silverstone, etc.

I think we've got two different approaches, like you said. We started at the top and are filling in towards the middle and bottom price points. They started in the middle and are filling in upwards, it seems. I personally think their cases compete very nicely in their pricepoints for people looking for a standard, quiet chassis with very unassuming looks.
I looked at the 600T today at Microcenter a very nice case inside and out just wish there was more cooling options for it w/o modding it. I know none of your cases have a side intake on them but if you plan on making a case with one make sure the case is wide enough so people can use a 120mm heatsinks without removing the fan.
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post #128 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
Thanks man. Most of the stuff you guys see us selling today was designed a year ago or more. The 800D, for example, was designed through most of 2008 and 2009. Cases have a very long development lead time, and lots of money is spent in tooling. We've gone out of our way to determine what's popular and what people want, from a feature set standpoint, and we're learning every day.

The 600T and 650D don't have dual 120mm fan hole mounts in the front. I learned that's important to you guys, so I'll keep that in mind for future cases. We're going out of our way to learn what you guys want and build it. It just takes time. Nobody makes perfect case, but I think the 600T is pretty awesome for our 2nd chassis.

Fractal Designs is a very interesting company and we are not ignoring them. We have a number of their cases in our labs. You have to know your competition. I'm sure they also have some of our cases in their lab. And probably Cooler Master, Antec, Silverstone, etc.

I think we've got two different approaches, like you said. We started at the top and are filling in towards the middle and bottom price points. They started in the middle and are filling in upwards, it seems. I personally think their cases compete very nicely in their pricepoints for people looking for a standard, quiet chassis with very unassuming looks.
Thanks for the response. My posts seem to be longer and more in depth than some. But, I like to be precise and speak my mind.

I have always believed in Corsair as a quality company and a competitor. I have no doubt you guys are going back to the drawing board and I hope perhaps we can see something new around the holidays. I don't know how often you plan on releasing product, but here is hoping. Or.... perhaps a front panel for the 700/800D

Anyway, I truly hope you guys look at what us enthusiasts are saying and can make some adjustments (at least what seem to be the common thoughts or occasional great idea). That being said I know tooling can be expensive and that goes for most new products. I work as an executive web manager in the golf industry and it surprised me to learn how much certain things cost such as tooling and catering to even more niche audiences such as left handed drivers (we wouldn't even get our money back for the initial costs). So I do understand certain compromises, but I hope that doesn't hold you back from meeting or exceeding your competitors.
post #129 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post
Thanks man. Most of the stuff you guys see us selling today was designed a year ago or more. The 800D, for example, was designed through most of 2008 and 2009. Cases have a very long development lead time, and lots of money is spent in tooling. We've gone out of our way to determine what's popular and what people want, from a feature set standpoint, and we're learning every day.

The 600T and 650D don't have dual 120mm fan hole mounts in the front. I learned that's important to you guys, so I'll keep that in mind for future cases. We're going out of our way to learn what you guys want and build it. It just takes time. Nobody makes perfect case, but I think the 600T is pretty awesome for our 2nd chassis.

Fractal Designs is a very interesting company and we are not ignoring them. We have a number of their cases in our labs. You have to know your competition. I'm sure they also have some of our cases in their lab. And probably Cooler Master, Antec, Silverstone, etc.

I think we've got two different approaches, like you said. We started at the top and are filling in towards the middle and bottom price points. They started in the middle and are filling in upwards, it seems. I personally think their cases compete very nicely in their pricepoints for people looking for a standard, quiet chassis with very unassuming looks.
Make the front fans Dual 140mm with the ability to accept Dual 120mm
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post #130 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodysb2 View Post
Make the front fans Dual 140mm with the ability to accept Dual 120mm
We'll do that where we can. 140mm fans are a lot bigger than 120mm fans, especially when you're talking about duals. If we have room for a 200mm fan, we should be able to stretch it for dual 120s, but stretching that to dual 140s is a bit tougher.

But yeah, on top, and side panels, and everywhere else, you have a lot more room. Mid-tower cases with dual 140s in the front aren't exceptionally common.
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