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post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post
That just means the rest of your case airflow sucks.Only way that works is if your have warm air going into the cooler with the top as exhaust.
Wrong! My temps are great. The heatsinks draws in all the cool air being blown into it and it gets sucked out the back.
Edited by tw33k - 1/8/11 at 7:21am
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33k View Post
I tried my top fan as both intake and exhaust and found intake was ~2-3c cooler than exhaust
This works because you are drawing unwarmed air in to present to the intake of your heatsink. When you followed the "hot air rises" method, what you presented to your heatsink was air warmed by the other components of your motherboard. The point of cooling efforts is not to cool your motherboard components but to cool your cpu and gpu. Cool your cpu with top and front intakes; cool your gpu with a side intake. Hot air rises unless it is blown somewhere. If you let it rise, you will get the results: "hot" air going into your heatsink.

This is one rationale, BTW, for the upside-down motherboard setups in the past: the heatsinks were on the bottom, not the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tier View Post
I appreciate everyone's opinions so far however I can't show the insides of a case that I don't have in my possession yet. Once it's released and I have my new system set up... pics will come.

Just trying to figure out the best route to go and logically in my head it's a bottom front to top back movement since heat rises which has been stated already by a handful of posters so far.
And if you do that, you get heat rising to warm your heatsink, the opposite of what you want. A heatsink has to transfer heat to air flowing through it. The warmer that air is, the less heat the heatsink can transfer.

Quote:
What no one touched on though was equal cfm intake and exhaust... doesn't seem to be much info out there on that. I suppose that's a difficult situation to create without doing a lot of work... For example, taking into account the impact of something like the harddrive cages as they partially obstruct the airflow of the front intake fans.
What you should consider doing is to make a free air channel out of your case. That means removing the rear grill. I also recommend removing the slot covers from unused backplane slots. Make all of your case fans intake fans with filters. Now the air will go in and flow out with the least amount of noise. You can try a rear exhaust fan to see if it improves your cooling; but I think it won't, and only add noise.

My diagram above illustrates what I did: I practice what I preach, and my rig gets me 2-3c cooler temps with the case buttoned up than it got when it was in open air.
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post #23 of 30
I love the positive airflow design and I will never go back to a negative airflow setup. Right now I am using a Silverstone FT02 (3x180mm intake at the bottom with filters, 1x120mm at the top for exhaust). The temperatures are much better than my old Antec P182 and it accumulates NO dust inside the case. I currently clean it about once every 3 months and the only dust is what accumulates on and near the intake fans. The components themselves are perfectly clean.

With my older negative pressure cases, I would clean them every 30 days and there would always be an ugly coating of dust covering all my precious components. Not anymore!

I made this graphic about a year ago comparing the temps of the positive airflow FT02 vs the negative airflow P182 when I first switched the cases. I know the P18x series has never been known for its cooling ability, but still, a several degree drop at load for both CPU and GPU is pretty significant for only switching cases.

Edited by jhaze84 - 1/8/11 at 10:12am
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhaze84 View Post
I love the positive airflow design and I will never go back to a negative airflow setup. Right now I am using a Silverstone FT02 (3x180mm intake at the bottom with filters, 1x120mm at the top for exhaust). The temperatures are much better than my old Antec P182 and it accumulates NO dust inside the case. I currently clean it about once every 3 months and the only dust is what accumulates on and near the intake fans. The components themselves are perfectly clean.

With my older negative pressure cases, I would clean them every 30 days and there would always be an ugly coating of dust covering all my precious components. Not anymore!

I made this graphic about a year ago comparing the temps of the positive airflow FT02 vs the negative airflow P182 when I first switched the cases. I know the P18x series has never been known for its cooling ability, but still, a several degree drop at load for both CPU and GPU is pretty significant for only switching cases.

+rep for the data (is it your first?).
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post #25 of 30
ehume I dont understand your logic against the hot air rising theory. Because if you have your case on or close to the ground and have your intake low and exhaust high it makes total logical sense that you are pulling the coolest air into the case. Now if you have a heatsink that pushes to the top or back its going to take that bottom cooler air and push it into the heatsink hence getting the cooler air through the heatsink. The only way this wouldnt work is if you had something really hot the cool air touches before hitting the cpu. So again the setup is unique to each person
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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckybam3 View Post
ehume I dont understand your logic against the hot air rising theory. Because if you have your case on or close to the ground and have your intake low and exhaust high it makes total logical sense that you are pulling the coolest air into the case. Now if you have a heatsink that pushes to the top or back its going to take that bottom cooler air and push it into the heatsink hence getting the cooler air through the heatsink. The only way this wouldnt work is if you had something really hot the cool air touches before hitting the cpu. So again the setup is unique to each person
I have no problem with the notion that hot air rises. But the fact that hot air rises makes it a problem: cool air goes into your case; it gets warmed by your HD(s); it gets warmed by the heatsink that covers your chipset; it gets warmed by the outer case of your psu; it likely gets warmed by the heat coming into your case from your gpu unless your vidcard has a shroud that directs all of its exhaust out of the case. All of this stuff rises and contributes to the single item in your system you least want warmed: your cpu.

Now, does a bottom intake bring in cooler air than a top intake? Perhaps. Is there as much difference between the bottom and the top intake air that it would be warmer than what your system components do to air inside the case? I doubt it.

Consider the fact that for most people, closing up their heat-rises cases results in higher temps, not better cooling. That tells you that the standard practice is just an theorist's idea of elegance, not something someone has tested for superiority in cooling. When those of us like tw33k has tested the theory against an approach like the fresh-air-cools-best method, the hot-air-rises theory loses out. The only time it does OK is with the FT02 case, which is designed differently from the standard approach.

If you're so convinced that the hot-air-rises orthodoxy is better, test it in your own rig against the fresh-air-cools-best method. As in everything else, data trumps theory, every time.
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post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post
I have no problem with the notion that hot air rises. But the fact that hot air rises makes it a problem: cool air goes into your case; it gets warmed by your HD(s); it gets warmed by the heatsink that covers your chipset; it gets warmed by the outer case of your psu; it likely gets warmed by the heat coming into your case from your gpu unless your vidcard has a shroud that directs all of its exhaust out of the case. All of this stuff rises and contributes to the single item in your system you least want warmed: your cpu.

Now, does a bottom intake bring in cooler air than a top intake? Perhaps. Is there as much difference between the bottom and the top intake air that it would be warmer than what your system components do to air inside the case? I doubt it.

Consider the fact that for most people, closing up their heat-rises cases results in higher temps, not better cooling. That tells you that the standard practice is just an theorist's idea of elegance, not something someone has tested for superiority in cooling. When those of us like tw33k has tested the theory against an approach like the fresh-air-cools-best method, the hot-air-rises theory loses out. The only time it does OK is with the FT02 case, which is designed differently from the standard approach.

If you're so convinced that the hot-air-rises orthodoxy is better, test it in your own rig against the fresh-air-cools-best method. As in everything else, data trumps theory, every time.
I am not convinced of anything other than that I got the best results with the case the way it came. I asked about your logic because I have just gotten a h50 from a friend and it seemed that most got better temps with it being outtake. I am thinking that with what you just said If I flipped my top fan as intake it might put cooler air through the rad hence lower temps no?

When I had my true the cool air in from bottom and hot air out the top yielded best results. But since then I got a h50 and a 5870 with a setup that pushes air out the back.

Also in your setup your talking about does it take into account door fans as intake?
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post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckybam3 View Post
Also in your setup your talking about does it take into account door fans as intake?
Yes.
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post #29 of 30
the hdd's and ps in my p183 are in a seperate compartment, so they don't influence the cpu temps... one big reason why the p18x cases are some of the best cases on the market.

gpu heat rising isn't an issue with positive pressure, if you configure it so that the air is blowing out through the card slots.

jhaze, i have both a p183 and an ft02, and with the ft02 fans on low, my cpu temps under load were at least one degree better in the p183... the ft02 rotates the cpu cooler in the wrong direction, so that it acts against the wicking effect in the cooling pipes... where the ft02 excels is with sli gpu cooling.

i had a fourth fan in my p183 upper compartment, which you didn't have, so you weren't optimizing the case flow... i have run both positive and negative pressure in a p182 and a p183.

overall, positive pressure is the way to go, because with air filtering, it keeps the case cleaner.
Edited by danimal - 1/8/11 at 12:41pm
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post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post
+rep for the data (is it your first?).
It is. I'm brand new here. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal View Post
i had a fourth fan in my p183 upper compartment, which you didn't have, so you weren't optimizing the case flow... i have run both positive and negative pressure in a p182 and a p183.

overall, positive pressure is the way to go, because with air filtering, it keeps the case cleaner.
When I had my P182, I had extra intake fans to create positive airflow, which helped temperatures. I even flipped the top fan over to make it an intake, and put a makeshift filter on it, and that REALLY helped CPU temps. But when I made that graphic, I wanted to compare a stock P182 setup to a stock FT02 setup.
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