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[Scrawl] First Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Details - Page 14

post #131 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zawarudo View Post
Try playing the game properly then.. If you intentionally go out of your way to mess the game up guess what will happen?

level scaling doesn't have anything to do with lock picking other than the amount of latches in the tumblers, It's purely timing. Secondly as far as I'm aware there isn't anything in the imperial warehouse anyway. It's only purpose is for a quest line.

For the record level scaling is all about difficulty lol. What do you think level scaling scales? ...
Look at what you just said....

Keep in mind we are talking about a sand box rpg.

You told me, and I quote.. "try playing the game properly".

Well that's my problem with your line of thought right there. In my opinion Sandbox rpg's shouldn't have a set way to play properly.

Other guy was right, you are simply not grasping the immersion that we are talking about and for whatever reason seem to be stuck on difficulty level.
post #132 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexa View Post
Look at what you just said....

Keep in mind we are talking about a sand box rpg.

You told me, and I quote.. "try playing the game properly".

Well that's my problem with your line of thought right there. In my opinion Sandbox rpg's shouldn't have a set way to play properly.

Other guy was right, you are simply not grasping the immersion that we are talking about and for whatever reason seem to be stuck on difficulty level.
No, the point I'm getting at is even a sand box RPG has a predefined set of rules. If you want immersion then why break straight into the most badass lock and expect to get a serious amount of stuff from the get go? You're character has just got out of prison and has been given an epic quest. Should that not be the biggest immersion factor? It seems more like your complaint is that you didn't get the reward that goes with the place at level 1, well would that not just totally ruin the rest of the game and thus totally destroy the immersion? because then you'd just be one hitting everything.

The reason there are dynamic shaping mechanics in place is because no one plays the game the same way. This doesn't mean however you should be rewarded end game gear or big loot at the start of the game because you broke a lock. That's got nothing to do with immersion, it's greed.

Also when I refer to difficulty I'm also referring to the drop rate or loot rate of items.
post #133 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zawarudo View Post
No, the point I'm getting at is even a sand box RPG has a predefined set of rules. If you want immersion then why break straight into the most badass lock and expect to get a serious amount of stuff from the get go? You're character has just got out of prison and has been given an epic quest. Should that not be the biggest immersion factor? It seems more like your complaint is that you didn't get the reward that goes with the place at level 1, well would that not just totally ruin the rest of the game and thus totally destroy the immersion? because then you'd just be one hitting everything.

The reason there are dynamic shaping mechanics in place is because no one plays the game the same way. This doesn't mean however you should be rewarded end game gear or big loot at the start of the game because you broke a lock. That's got nothing to do with immersion, it's greed.

Also when I refer to difficulty I'm also referring to the drop rate or loot rate of items.
I think that even most of the people who played Oblivion will agree that the main quest in TES games isn't what makes the game great or immersive.
edit: though Skyrim should change that. Hopefully they have better main-quest designers finally.

Though becoming the Nerevarine was pretty awesome and badass.
Edited by thiru - 1/10/11 at 6:34am
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post #134 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zawarudo View Post
No, the point I'm getting at is even a sand box RPG has a predefined set of rules. If you want immersion then why break straight into the most badass lock and expect to get a serious amount of stuff from the get go? You're character has just got out of prison and has been given an epic quest. Should that not be the biggest immersion factor? It seems more like your complaint is that you didn't get the reward that goes with the place at level 1, well would that not just totally ruin the rest of the game and thus totally destroy the immersion? because then you'd just be one hitting everything.

The reason there are dynamic shaping mechanics in place is because no one plays the game the same way. This doesn't mean however you should be rewarded end game gear or big loot at the start of the game because you broke a lock. That's got nothing to do with immersion, it's greed.

Also when I refer to difficulty I'm also referring to the drop rate or loot rate of items.
I can certainly see both sides of the coin here and shows a slight flaw in the design of an open world such as this.

In terms of having a consistent and logical world you would think there are really great items in the Imperial Lockup. But with it being empty, perhaps they moved the items to another location and just haven't procured new ones.

I think part of the issue is that people expect every little possibility to be given an explanation in these games. That there should have been an NPC to tell the player, 'Hey, we aint got jack right now, come on back later, we may have something for you to steal you jerkoff....the hell did you get picked to save us anyways?'

There is nothing wrong with trying to steal from the same people entrusting you to help save everyone. That is the beauty of these games.

My question is, how much risk is there to breaking in to this location? It has been ages since I've played Oblivion and can't remember. If there is none/small risk, then you shouldn't get anything. If there is high risk, then you should get a lot of great items. That is a core rule of game design and for keeping the player enticed.

But with an open game, sometimes the algorithms used end up screwing the pooch on that.
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post #135 of 203
with no level scaling, you effectively create 1 path through the game. Is that what you guys want?

New vegas did it properly, they put minimum and maximum limits on what and when certain creatures would spawn. Raiders quit getting leveled up pretty quickly, and then you get the low side of supermutants, and then they also start getting tougher. They also specifically placed Mobs of specific level on the landscape also.

Remember that fallout 3 and new vegas have both come out since Oblivion, and both of those built upon what the previous games did.

Raiders in fallout 3 and new vegas are the oblivion equivalent to bandits, and they dont wear power armor in fallout 3 when they get high level, which is the equivalent to glass armor in oblivion.

Peoples complaints seem to mostly be addressed already.
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post #136 of 203
I'm fine with Fallout 3's system.

I'm wondering what exactly this means:
Quote:
Quests, like combat, also boast a more dynamic feel. You’ll be assigned quests depending on how you develop your character.
Randomized (generated) quests like Daggerfall or does it just mean that the game has a repertoire of quests and you only get to do some of them? (or both)
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post #137 of 203
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Originally Posted by thiru View Post
I'm fine with Fallout 3's system.

I'm wondering what exactly this means:


Randomized (generated) quests like Daggerfall or does it just mean that the game has a repertoire of quests and you only get to do some of them? (or both)
my thoughts were both. Instead of a mage giving you the quest, its a warrior, if you happen to be a warrior. Probably just lots of presets with random generation. Places are empty until you get the quest and when you go in, it auto populates with stuff of your level and pertaining to the quest. 1 play through it might be vampires and the next you could be saving a girl from bandits. Atleast thats how it came through in my mind.

I just want the story and acting to be good, with some characters that have some depth and development. Something that elder scrolls has never done well. If it could, then it would be the ultimate RPG, til then it is a so so rpg set in a great sandbox world. If they could deliver nwn 2 story and character depth, not only for the allies but for the enemies like was done in nwn 2. It would be epic. Otherwise it will just be another game where i gather up every skull i can find in the game and then find the best throne and then pile up my skulls around it and sit in it for my picture of me on my throne of skulls like i always do.
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post #138 of 203
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Originally Posted by Hexa View Post
Don't know about you but I can only think of a very few ways to describe "level scaling".

Regardless the point is some people don't like it no matter how they may or may not do it.

For the record level scaling has nothing to do with difficulty. It's all about immersion and realism.

In Oblivion I broke into the IMPERIAL wharehouse from the start. First problem, how in the hell does someone with lock picking skill of 20 break into the IMPERIAL wharehouse?! Second problem, I'm in the IMPERIAL wharehouse and all thats in there is hourglasses, spoons and cups. Seriously?! You are telling me that all the IMPERIAL wharehouse contains is hourglasses, spoons and cups?!

That's stupid and it's what you get with level scaling.

If you like it fine, but many other ES players despise it with a passion and I am one of them.
why would I keep anything in the WHAREHOUSE? I would put everything in the WAREHOUSE. Looks like you broke into the wrong place.
Edited by MechanicalHand - 1/10/11 at 8:57am
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post #139 of 203
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Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Randomized (generated) quests like Daggerfall or does it just mean that the game has a repertoire of quests and you only get to do some of them? (or both)
If my exprience with advertising is anything it is overall simple and not that complex. There may be some choices here and there but overall it wont impact the game that much.
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post #140 of 203
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Originally Posted by slipstream808 View Post
It is very realistic, though. And there are mods that slow down your leveling. Some of the most popular ones there. So you can't say people don't want that. Otherwise how would they be so popular?

I think more people want an immersive world where the main quest ISN'T the main appeal of the game. I mean that is one of the last things you ever hear about in any of Bethesda's games when you talk about enduring appeal. Its the wide open world with possibilities you have to earn your way through. About the only thing I'd want is a way to mark an area that you will come back to later because you are too low of a level right now.
There's a mod for oblivion that allows you to do that, you just open up the map and tag a location with "strong enemy", "locked chest", "done" etc. I can't remember the name at the moment though I'm afraid.
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