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DDC-1 is throttling?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I've noticed the past day or so that my Laing DDC-1 varies in speed. I hear the sound of the pump change as (I guess) it slows down or speeds up. The loop has been running solid for at least a few weeks. Is this normal?
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post #2 of 18
Are you sure it is the pump varying in speed and not just air bubbles or other turbulence changing? Also, does your pump have and RPM header you could plug into the motherboard to get a reading?
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post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse55 View Post
Are you sure it is the pump varying in speed and not just air bubbles or other turbulence changing? Also, does your pump have and RPM header you could plug into the motherboard to get a reading?
I know it's not air bubbles. The loop has been bled and is fine. I can't say that it wasn't turbulence changing the pump. Though, would turbulence randomly change or come up in a loop with nothing changing? It does have a RPM wire but I don't have a plug anywhere I can crimp to it (just a bare wire) to connect to the mobo.


Edit: The sound of the pump changes for extended periods of time (at least a few minutes). Would turbulence cause an extended change in sound? That's my main reason why I was asking if it might be voltage or something (or the pump going out), because it fluctuates for extended amounts, not just a short dip.
Edited by repo_man - 1/8/11 at 2:43pm
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post #4 of 18
Almost sounds like a bearing is worn and from time to time, slips to a now so round spot and causes the pump to get a little off balance. How much crap is on the rail with the pump?
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post #5 of 18
Do the changes seem to coorespond to CPU/GPU duty? In other words, could it be coolant temp related? How about the power supply? Try hooking up a volt meter and watch the voltage when you hear changes. In any event, I don't think I'd leave the system running unattended and if possible have a backup pump ready.
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post #6 of 18
A few things to look into ...

- It could be supplied power to the pump if the PSU rail is heavily loaded down.

- The pressure in the loop builds up causing the pump to slow down and then something swirls to release bringing the flow back up. This is similar to pinching the tubes and releasing. Are there restrictions in the loop anywhere?

- Yes, if you can get the tach wire to a MOBO tach 3-pin header, the BIOS should give you feedback. Of course, that will only give you one part of the story here.

- If there is crud in the loop and the impeller to the ceramic ball has a lump of something? You will need to take the pump apart via the four screws, wipe the whiter ceramic ball clean and the hole in the impeller, reassemble and run the pump. RAD flux can do all kinds of things in a loop.

- Is it possible to take the pump out of the loop, run it via a 1-gallon jug loop and monitor the pump?

Keep us updated on the loop status ...
Edited by bmaverick - 1/9/11 at 1:56pm
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post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soggysilicon View Post
Almost sounds like a bearing is worn and from time to time, slips to a now so round spot and causes the pump to get a little off balance. How much crap is on the rail with the pump?
The only other things on the rail with the pump are 2 140mm fans. So, not much else going on there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by c5pilot View Post
Do the changes seem to coorespond to CPU/GPU duty? In other words, could it be coolant temp related? How about the power supply? Try hooking up a volt meter and watch the voltage when you hear changes. In any event, I don't think I'd leave the system running unattended and if possible have a backup pump ready.
I only have the CPU in the loop and the temps never fluctuate (stock settings on this small dual core, no huge vcore or SMP here) so I doubt it's temp related. If I think to grab a volt meter the next time it does it I'll see if there's any change there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaverick View Post
A few things to look into ...

- It could be supplied power to the pump if the PSU rail is heavily loaded down.

- The pressure in the loop builds up causing the pump to slow down and then something swirls to release bringing the flow back up. This is similar to pinching the tubes and releasing. Are there restrictions in the loop anywhere?

- Yes, if you can get the tach wire to a MOBO tach 3-pin header, the BIOS should give you feedback. Of course, that will only give you one part of the story here.

- If there is crud in the loop and the impeller to the ceramic ball has a lump of something? You will need to take the pump apart via the four screws, wipe the whiter ceramic ball clean and the hole in the impeller, reassemble and run the pump. RAD flux can do all kinds of things in a loop.

- Is it possible to take the pump out of the loop, run it via a 1-gallon jug loop and monitor the pump?

Keep us updated on the loop status ...
The only restriction in the loop is the block I guess. I don't have any hard bends or extra blocks in it.

I'll see if I can scrounge up a header plug and try to get the tach wire hooked up at some point next week.

@crud in the loop - Not that I know of. Though I plan on taking the loop down late next week and put some distilled in it and clean the block (or see if it's dirty at least). I'll run the pump into a bucket when I tear the loop down and see if I get any changes.




Thanks for the help so far everyone. Reps all around.
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post #8 of 18
If there is not enough restriction in the loop the impeller may be exceeding the expected rpm that the pump is designed for, and as the pump cuts the magnetic field out of phase with the motor, it could act like a brake and cause the rpm's to bounce around. How are the rpms looking anyway?
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post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soggysilicon View Post
If there is not enough restriction in the loop the impeller may be exceeding the expected rpm that the pump is designed for, and as the pump cuts the magnetic field out of phase with the motor, it could act like a brake and cause the rpm's to bounce around. How are the rpms looking anyway?
I don't know what the RPMs are. I still haven't gotten the header plug put on the wire. Will do that tomorrow. I did get the voltmeter out today and checked the voltage. 12.20-12.21v to the pump. No fluctuation or anything, nice and steady.

Will update tomorrow with RPMs and loop situation (I'm going to tear it down and clean it thoroughly).
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post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by repo_man View Post
I don't know what the RPMs are. I still haven't gotten the header plug put on the wire. Will do that tomorrow. I did get the voltmeter out today and checked the voltage. 12.20-12.21v to the pump. No fluctuation or anything, nice and steady.

Will update tomorrow with RPMs and loop situation (I'm going to tear it down and clean it thoroughly).
Martins lab did a review/post/test on over-volting the pump too see if flow rates could be bias'd one way or the other by putting more juice to it, and the answer was a flat Nope, looks like any additional volts going to the thing just poured off as heat/watts, so that said, the understanding is, that it can be undervolted to lower the speed, but overvolting seems to switch it to a different resistor/resisting element internally so it just heats up.

May of been built like that intentionally so that it would always "do" what it says it does on the box, no matter what dirty signal / crappy psu/12v service one puts it on. Or, that it is some sort of reverse current cutout designed to lower the applied voltage after the pump gets up to speed, (i wanna say the thing can juice upto 19 volts from a standstill to get going.)

If you dont have the 3 pin mobo header, then your pump is the 3.1? There is a mod that can be done to ramp up the pump to a 3.2 spec (solder mod) which makes it the same spec as the 3.2 (head pressure), afaik thats the only difference between the two, (that and the impeller is orange/white and not blue/orange) that and the mobo header.

Check your psu as well, even though the thing is the only device on the molex does not mean that internally to the PSU that is is not in series with another physical plug.

I learned this the hard when when I started running SLi, that even though it was on a different service/plug off the psu, that in fact, internally they were wired together in the psu. Had to switch to a SLi certified psu to fix my issues.

Lights/diodes/fans anything with variable speeds could cause the resistance to go up and down, changing the overall dynamic of the current in the line, causing the pump to throttle, causing something else to change, causing the pump to throttle again... food for thought. Got a spare old 200 watt psu lying around you could toss it on too see?
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