Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [AUSAIRPOWER] China Chengdu J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter Prototype
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[AUSAIRPOWER] China Chengdu J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter Prototype - Page 4  

post #31 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by oicw View Post
High tech war machines are meant to prevent wars, by scaring each other, rather than start wars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
Hhhhmmm, you must've missed Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf war I and II, Afghanistan. Or doesn't it count when the enemy haven't got the same technology and are therefore easy targets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oicw View Post
Hmmmmm, you must've missed "major powers" and "high tech weapons".
No. I didn't miss it, and wasn't disagreeing with you about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oicw View Post
Since when was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghan (and Yoguslavia) considerd a major/super power?"
We agree on that as well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by oicw View Post
Since when did any of those countries have even remotely the class of weapons as the USA?
Once again, no argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oicw View Post
You just made my point even more clear: none of those 5 wars would've occured if the "other side" was a superpower with high tech weapons (the Korean and Viet era China was far from today, and Soviet was only a very remote participant in those wars).
Now we're getting somewhere, "none of those 5 wars would've occured if the "other side" was a superpower ". Oh. Well, thats ok then, they weren't superpowers, lets attack them with our vastly superiour weaponery to make our point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oicw View Post
History shows: if you're a little guy with no serious defence, a major power will pick on you using some bull**** "human rights", "political instability", or other excuse, for their benefit. This has been the case since the Roman and other ancient empires, to the more modern British Empire, Hitler, USSR, and unfortunately, USA.
This is also true.

Apart from the USA. The other examples and any others you could have used, didn't possess the technological advantage that the USA has, and has had, in it's recent wars. The Romans didn't conquer most of western Europe by having more advanced technology than their competitors, they did it with tactics, dicipline, social advancement, infrastructure and mostly divide and rule.

Technology doesn't stop super powers fighting between themselves. Apart from nuclear weapons, not much has really changed since the the first world war. Artilliary, tanks, airplanes, small arms, grenades, bayonets, it's all the same. All that technology didn't stop two world wars being fought by super powers did it?

The thing that stops wars now is social conscience, on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, Britain took 60,000 casualties, one day. The Somme lasted 4 months. Do you think that would happen now? Life was cheap, and people had different ideals.

High tech war machines aren't meant to prevent wars. They're designed to attack and defend against enemies, who ever they may be considered to be.
Purpleannex
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k Z68 Extreme4gen3 Gainward GTX 470 @ 740Mhz 8GB Mushkin Blackline LV (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 9... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M225 SSD 2 x 500gb 500GbB samsung 500GbB samsung Samsung SH-B083L 8x BD Combo 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 64-bit LG W2486L LED 24" 1080p Antech True power new 750W FT-02 B-W 
  hide details  
Purpleannex
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k Z68 Extreme4gen3 Gainward GTX 470 @ 740Mhz 8GB Mushkin Blackline LV (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz 9... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M225 SSD 2 x 500gb 500GbB samsung 500GbB samsung Samsung SH-B083L 8x BD Combo 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 64-bit LG W2486L LED 24" 1080p Antech True power new 750W FT-02 B-W 
  hide details  
post #32 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
All that technology didn't stop two world wars being fought by super powers did it?
They didn't have nukes - and when they dropped 2 on Japan they did end the war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
The thing that stops wars now is social conscience
When manipulated, even the most social conscious and peace loving ppl will go to war.
Crimson Basilisk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600K @ 5.1Ghz AsRock Extreme4 Gen3 Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar "Black" 1TB SATAII LG WH14NS40 Blu-ray Burner XSPC Rasa CPU (Acetal) Black RX360 Triple Fan Radiator 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
XSPC DDC Two BayRes BMaverick Laing DDC (MCP350) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Philips 201B 21" CRT 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic VX922 19" LCD Diamond Digital Black Antec True Power 750w Antec LanBoy Air Red 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Epic Gear Meduza (By GEIL) Steel Series QCK+ XL Asus Xonar DX ROCCAT Kave 5.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset 
Other
Sennheiser hd555 
  hide details  
Crimson Basilisk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600K @ 5.1Ghz AsRock Extreme4 Gen3 Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar "Black" 1TB SATAII LG WH14NS40 Blu-ray Burner XSPC Rasa CPU (Acetal) Black RX360 Triple Fan Radiator 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
XSPC DDC Two BayRes BMaverick Laing DDC (MCP350) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Philips 201B 21" CRT 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic VX922 19" LCD Diamond Digital Black Antec True Power 750w Antec LanBoy Air Red 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Epic Gear Meduza (By GEIL) Steel Series QCK+ XL Asus Xonar DX ROCCAT Kave 5.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset 
Other
Sennheiser hd555 
  hide details  
post #33 of 130
I guess that people are missing the point...no one said that China is able to challenge the US power now...however in 20 years the situation is going to be very very different...

Since 1980 China's economy is experiencing above 10% econ growth (beside 1989 and 1990 due to the Tiananmen Square)...since 1990 China's military budget tripled from 30 to 100 billion $...and that only 2% their GDP per year...US is giving 4% to military...
US won the Cold War due to its economy...and Soviet inability to leave the state controlled, centrally planed economy behind...China is not the USSR...and the numbers are the evidence of it...

J20 will be 2-3 times cheaper that F22...even though it will not be as good as Raptor the sheer number of J22s will be impossible to handle (remember the story between T34 vs Panther/Tiger and Sherman vs Panther/Tiger). As far as I know there were 187 Raptors built due to the lack of funding. One crashed last year in Alaska leaving 186 Raptors.

Quality is not always better than quantity And the next few decades are going to be very interesting for the US, and the whole world...
FuG 16 Z
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 ASUS P6X58D-E 2x MSI 6970 Lightning  6GB DD3 Dominator 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
3x 1TB F3s [RAID 0] + Crucial M4 64GB Windows 7 25" LG M2550D Seasonic X850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone FT02 Rat 7 Mionix Propus 380 Swans M10s 
  hide details  
FuG 16 Z
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 ASUS P6X58D-E 2x MSI 6970 Lightning  6GB DD3 Dominator 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
3x 1TB F3s [RAID 0] + Crucial M4 64GB Windows 7 25" LG M2550D Seasonic X850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone FT02 Rat 7 Mionix Propus 380 Swans M10s 
  hide details  
post #34 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post

The thing that stops wars now is social conscience, on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, Britain took 60,000 casualties, one day. The Somme lasted 4 months. Do you think that would happen now? Life was cheap, and people had different ideals.
Life is cheap in China even today (in every communist country life is/was cheap USSR/Yugoslavia/China)...

Chinese peasant lives out of a bowl of rice a day...US peasant doesn't...a big difference...

In the case of a hypothetical war between US and China...the US citizens will suffer more...way more...after all that Chinese peasant will still live out of the bowl a rice per day...the US counterpart will have big problems living without McDonallds, Burger King, good cars and homes...etc...

I think you get my point.
FuG 16 Z
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 ASUS P6X58D-E 2x MSI 6970 Lightning  6GB DD3 Dominator 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
3x 1TB F3s [RAID 0] + Crucial M4 64GB Windows 7 25" LG M2550D Seasonic X850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone FT02 Rat 7 Mionix Propus 380 Swans M10s 
  hide details  
FuG 16 Z
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 ASUS P6X58D-E 2x MSI 6970 Lightning  6GB DD3 Dominator 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
3x 1TB F3s [RAID 0] + Crucial M4 64GB Windows 7 25" LG M2550D Seasonic X850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone FT02 Rat 7 Mionix Propus 380 Swans M10s 
  hide details  
post #35 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
Apart from the USA. The other examples and any others you could have used, didn't possess the technological advantage that the USA has, and has had, in it's recent wars. The Romans didn't conquer most of western Europe by having more advanced technology than their competitors, they did it with tactics, dicipline, social advancement, infrastructure and mostly divide and rule.
It's hard to compare an ancient civilization technology, with modern tech, in a direct, literal sense. Under those primitive cultures, I would describe "tactics, dicipline, social advancement, infrastructure" as technology. You can go as far as saying that indirectly, technology allowed the Romans to have a stable, civilized central government in a populous city.


Quote:
Technology doesn't stop super powers fighting between themselves. Apart from nuclear weapons, not much has really changed since the the first world war. Artilliary, tanks, airplanes, small arms, grenades, bayonets, it's all the same. All that technology didn't stop two world wars being fought by super powers did it?
Technically, "Superpowers" only emerged with post WWII US and USSR. I define superpower as much more than military, as is the case with modern China (relatively weak military). These days, superpowers control global economy, through natural resources, manufacturing, trade, etc. This is something NO COUNTRY could've done in the 1800's or early 1900's.

Quote:
The thing that stops wars now is social conscience, on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, Britain took 60,000 casualties, one day. The Somme lasted 4 months. Do you think that would happen now? Life was cheap, and people had different ideals.
I agree with you. Even in modern times, you can see an increase in human life value. Look at how many people (Americans) died in Korean and Vietnam, compare that to Iraq and Afghan.

But that is not ALL that's deterring us from war. As I mentioned above, it's the devastating Global effect. A major war today can easily send our living qualities back by 100 years - to a time where cars belong to the rich, and appliances are considered a luxry. This current economic recession is only a TINY foreshadow of what a US/China/Russia/India/EU war would be like.

Quote:
High tech war machines aren't meant to prevent wars. They're designed to attack and defend against enemies, who ever they may be considered to be
The ability to defend against an enemy IS the definition of "war prevention". If Iraq had REAL ICBMs, a fleet of F22 level fighters, or hell, even F15/SU27/30/35s, you can bet this war wouldn't have happened!

If you can't defend yourself, you open yourself to an attack (if a superpower sees profit to be gained). Of course, us regular citizens only get to hear the made up excuses / propaganda: "Axis of Evil" "Weapons of Mass Destruction"...
Oldie
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.7 GHz P67A-UD4 FirePro V4800 @ 840 MHz Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
OCZ Solid 3 120G NH-D14 Benq M2700HD Antec TruePower 
CaseAudio
HAF 932 Z-5500 
  hide details  
Oldie
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.7 GHz P67A-UD4 FirePro V4800 @ 840 MHz Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
OCZ Solid 3 120G NH-D14 Benq M2700HD Antec TruePower 
CaseAudio
HAF 932 Z-5500 
  hide details  
post #36 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komder View Post
I guess that people are missing the point...no one said that China is able to challenge the US power now...however in 20 years the situation is going to be very very different...

The only comforting thought is: the Chinese culture is a very conservative one - "never attack unless attacked". In their 5000 years of civilization, they've NEVER attacked a single foreign country (though got attacked multiple times). And no, it's not because they were weak; They were the single largest economy/power till the onset of Industrial Revolution, when Britain took over (1700's).

Compare that to say, the British Empire or Germany.
Oldie
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.7 GHz P67A-UD4 FirePro V4800 @ 840 MHz Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
OCZ Solid 3 120G NH-D14 Benq M2700HD Antec TruePower 
CaseAudio
HAF 932 Z-5500 
  hide details  
Oldie
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.7 GHz P67A-UD4 FirePro V4800 @ 840 MHz Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
OCZ Solid 3 120G NH-D14 Benq M2700HD Antec TruePower 
CaseAudio
HAF 932 Z-5500 
  hide details  
post #37 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by oicw View Post
The only comforting thought is: the Chinese culture is a very conservative one - "never attack unless attacked". In their 5000 years of civilization, they've NEVER attacked a single foreign country (though got attacked multiple times). And no, it's not because they were weak; They were the single largest economy/power till the onset of Industrial Revolution, when Britain took over (1700's).

Compare that to say, the British Empire or Germany.
Well just go back 60 years in history to the Korean War and you'll see that things do change...400k Chinese wounded and 200k dead...

However, if you look at the economies of the countries in the Chinese proximity...Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia you will see that there is substantial Chinese capital in them...

Rather that militarily they are controlling them economically which is by far worse...

As I said the near future is going to be very interesting
FuG 16 Z
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 ASUS P6X58D-E 2x MSI 6970 Lightning  6GB DD3 Dominator 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
3x 1TB F3s [RAID 0] + Crucial M4 64GB Windows 7 25" LG M2550D Seasonic X850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone FT02 Rat 7 Mionix Propus 380 Swans M10s 
  hide details  
FuG 16 Z
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 920 ASUS P6X58D-E 2x MSI 6970 Lightning  6GB DD3 Dominator 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
3x 1TB F3s [RAID 0] + Crucial M4 64GB Windows 7 25" LG M2550D Seasonic X850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone FT02 Rat 7 Mionix Propus 380 Swans M10s 
  hide details  
post #38 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komder View Post
Well just go back 60 years in history to the Korean War and you'll see that things do change...400k Chinese wounded and 200k dead...
They did that because if they didn't, and N Korea lost, America would be building huge military bases and missle launch sites right at China's front door.

Again, I think this is a perfect example of "fight only when attacked". Also, they didn't invade any country during that war, they simply allied and sided with N Korea.

Same can be said about Vietnam. The reason the Chinese fought so hard, is because they didn't want America to win and sit at their border.


Quote:
However, if you look at the economies of the countries in the Chinese proximity...Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia you will see that there is substantial Chinese capital in them...

Rather that militarily they are controlling them economically which is by far worse...

As I said the near future is going to be very interesting
True, but I think the economics are more a interest of the private sector, and not the Chinese government. Same can be said about VW and GM plants in China, I wouldn't call it German and American control.

I agree with you though, we're seeing another turning point in history. The future will be interesting, hopefully for the better and not worse. One thing I'll stand firm on, in this age of Global Economy, we cannot afford any large scale war.

If that happens, you can bet we won't be sitting here arguing about Sandy Bridge vs Bulldozer
Oldie
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.7 GHz P67A-UD4 FirePro V4800 @ 840 MHz Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
OCZ Solid 3 120G NH-D14 Benq M2700HD Antec TruePower 
CaseAudio
HAF 932 Z-5500 
  hide details  
Oldie
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.7 GHz P67A-UD4 FirePro V4800 @ 840 MHz Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
OCZ Solid 3 120G NH-D14 Benq M2700HD Antec TruePower 
CaseAudio
HAF 932 Z-5500 
  hide details  
post #39 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CiX View Post
That plane looks super heavy, it cant win in a stealth fighter dog fight thats for damn sure...unless they have new engine tech thats ahead of the u.s., then im afraid its like a MIG version of the f-22, all strait speed, crappy maneuverability!
Edited by phantomphenom - 1/17/11 at 12:30am
My Switch 810
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k MSI z68-GD65 MSI 560ti Hawk x2 SLI Corsair Vengeance 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Blu Ray Burner Corsair H100 Windows 7 Pro Dell Ultra Sharp U2312 x3 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
i-rocks white mini keyboard Corsair AX1200 NZXT Switch 810 NZXT Avatar S White 
Mouse Pad
Guild Wars 2 
  hide details  
My Switch 810
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k MSI z68-GD65 MSI 560ti Hawk x2 SLI Corsair Vengeance 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Blu Ray Burner Corsair H100 Windows 7 Pro Dell Ultra Sharp U2312 x3 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
i-rocks white mini keyboard Corsair AX1200 NZXT Switch 810 NZXT Avatar S White 
Mouse Pad
Guild Wars 2 
  hide details  
post #40 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomphenom View Post
That plane looks super heavy, it cant win in a stealth fighter dog fight thats for damn sure
But if they make a lot of them, and they outnumber the US fighters 3:1, does it really matter? As long as one gets through with its payload, it could still be lights out.

As i said earlier, things like these are used as deterants. They show other countries you have the knowledge and ability to build such things, and your military is not to be taken lightly.

I think with China's growing economy and it's growing military strength, they pose a formidable challenge to any country thinking of attacking them - even the US - and I think that is the whole point.

If you show your country is strong enough to put up a challenge, you deter other countries from attacking you, and as a result you reduce the likelyhood of having to go to war in defense of your country.
Crimson Basilisk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600K @ 5.1Ghz AsRock Extreme4 Gen3 Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar "Black" 1TB SATAII LG WH14NS40 Blu-ray Burner XSPC Rasa CPU (Acetal) Black RX360 Triple Fan Radiator 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
XSPC DDC Two BayRes BMaverick Laing DDC (MCP350) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Philips 201B 21" CRT 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic VX922 19" LCD Diamond Digital Black Antec True Power 750w Antec LanBoy Air Red 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Epic Gear Meduza (By GEIL) Steel Series QCK+ XL Asus Xonar DX ROCCAT Kave 5.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset 
Other
Sennheiser hd555 
  hide details  
Crimson Basilisk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600K @ 5.1Ghz AsRock Extreme4 Gen3 Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar "Black" 1TB SATAII LG WH14NS40 Blu-ray Burner XSPC Rasa CPU (Acetal) Black RX360 Triple Fan Radiator 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
XSPC DDC Two BayRes BMaverick Laing DDC (MCP350) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Philips 201B 21" CRT 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic VX922 19" LCD Diamond Digital Black Antec True Power 750w Antec LanBoy Air Red 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Epic Gear Meduza (By GEIL) Steel Series QCK+ XL Asus Xonar DX ROCCAT Kave 5.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset 
Other
Sennheiser hd555 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [AUSAIRPOWER] China Chengdu J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter Prototype