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Sandy Bridge Intel Insider/ Killswitch Technology Clarification - Page 2

post #11 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCactus;11954201 
Well then be prepared for more DRM restrictions built into your hardware in the future since you don't mind it and embrace it. Vote with your money I say. I will personally enjoy my drm/killswitch free intel i5-520m dual core w/HT.

What should bother you is Intel didn't give you a choice. You should at least be able to chose a SB chip version without the killswitch or DRM features. Give me a break, how many people plan to use Intel's streaming service? How many people plan to use the Killswitch? You should be able to buy a version without the Killswitch/DRM.

This is a piss poor argument. If you don't plan to use CinemaNow, then it doesn't effect you... Besides, you don't have to buy Intel CPUs fool.

Seriously, stop spreading muck and misinformation around our forum, its really annoying.
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post #12 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCactus;11954201 
Well then be prepared for more DRM restrictions built into your hardware in the future since you don't mind it and embrace it. Vote with your money I say. I will personally enjoy my drm/killswitch free intel i5-520m dual core w/HT.

What should bother you is Intel didn't give you a choice. You should at least be able to chose a SB chip version without the killswitch or DRM features. Give me a break, how many people plan to use Intel's streaming service? How many people plan to use the Killswitch? You should be able to buy a version without the Killswitch/DRM.

http://download.intel.com/technology/vpro/Whitepaper_AllNew2010IntelCorevProProcessors.pdf

110201162607am.jpg
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post #13 of 89
+ Rep

Excellent clarification and post, thank you.

Still proud to be an Intel Shareholder. And this i7-2600K is gonna scream! ;-) Atleast until the enthusiast (non-integrated graphics) chips roll later this year.
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post #14 of 89
thanks! +rep
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post #15 of 89
Okay, Born2bewild let discuss “real” information.

A few questions concerning the killswitch functionality
How does disabling the CPU remotely protect your investment? Is the Killswitch feature going to return the laptop? Act as a deterrence maybe.drum.gif A big assumption, does the thief even know the laptop is disabled or can be disabled? This is Marketing only and is not effective security.

The answers to the following questions will provide insight if there is a
possible exposure

How do cell phones/wireless devices authenticate? Can you clone a phone or wireless card? Can you intercept a phone call? Is there a reason why secure military communication equipment change frequencies? Is there a way to intercept a kill command or more importantly send one? Use this in conjunction with the first question. Is wireless encryption secure? Can you use a graphic card to decrypt or break wireless communications in real time? I should clarify this to state multiple cards used in tandem. I think you may want to google a little to determine the answer

Do you trust the techs? - Do they have gambling or drug problems? Can they be bribed or are they pissed about something the company did? Seems the techs have the ability to enable or disabled the functionality. Do the techs want to mess with some employees for fun? My laptop doesn’t work. Now it does. Don’t worry about this one as they would get caught if a proper audit trail is maintained. Well maybe you should worry, is an audit trail of enabling and disabling the killswitch maintained?

It seems to me Born2 you are not considering all of the possibilities. eek.gif
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post #16 of 89
Killswitch won't even work unless you're using vPro, how many of you are? Do you even know what vPro is? Tell me OCN users. How many are? I think none since most of you are high school kiddies.

110201162607am.jpg

Second, DRM is a non-concern if you're not using Intel's steaming service. No service = doesn't affect you.

And BigCactus is a joke. Clearly he has no background knowledge on any of these things and yet he preaches his "knowledge" like he is the senior level IT manager at some big firm. What a joke.
Edited by Clairvoyant129 - 1/11/11 at 5:36pm
 
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post #17 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clairvoyant129;11976838 
Killswitch won't even work unless you're using vPro, how many of you are? Do you even know what vPro is? Tell me OCN users. How many are? I think none since most of you are high school kiddies.

110201162607am.jpg

Second, DRM is a non-concern if you're not using Intel's steaming service. No service = doesn't affect you.

And BigCactus is a joke. Clearly he has no background knowledge on any of these things and yet he preaches his "knowledge" like he is the senior level IT manager at some big firm. What a joke.

Hi Clair;

You still have not answer my questions. Why not?

Another point I am not BigCactus. There you go making assumptions again. You know what they say about assuming?

You are funny but dont answer too many questions do you?
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post #18 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmon;11976430 
Okay, Born2bewild let discuss “real” information.

A few questions concerning the killswitch functionality
How does disabling the CPU remotely protect your investment? Is the Killswitch feature going to return the laptop? Act as a deterrence maybe.drum.gif A big assumption, does the thief even know the laptop is disabled or can be disabled? This is Marketing only and is not effective security.

Well at least the thief will not be able to use your laptop without buying a new CPU. And since most thieves are not extremely tech savvy, they must go to a computer store to repair it, and they might notice that this laptop was stolen. Also, if the thief is tech savvy (which I might say it's quite rare to itself), then he will have to buy a new processor to make the PC function.

And trust me, once a few thieves steal computers and notice that they are all "broken" it will be a strong repellent.

Also, the Killswitch along with the on-processor data encryption will be able to save your data, which is quite important especially if you're a corporate worker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmon;11976430 
How do cell phones/wireless devices authenticate? Can you clone a phone or wireless card? Can you intercept a phone call? Is there a reason why secure military communication equipment change frequencies? Is there a way to intercept a kill command or more importantly send one? Use this in conjunction with the first question. Is wireless encryption secure? Can you use a graphic card to decrypt or break wireless communications in real time? I should clarify this to state multiple cards used in tandem. I think you may want to google a little to determine the answer

Do you trust the techs? - Do they have gambling or drug problems? Can they be bribed or are they pissed about something the company did? Seems the techs have the ability to enable or disabled the functionality. Do the techs want to mess with some employees for fun? My laptop doesn’t work. Now it does. Don’t worry about this one as they would get caught if a proper audit trail is maintained. Well maybe you should worry, is an audit trail of enabling and disabling the killswitch maintained?

The way to send a "kill" command is through Bluetooth and 3G networks. I believe that you have to contact Intel to disable the processor. There would be no way to block the 3G unless you're in a dead area (most of those areas don't even have access to this kind of technology), and no way to interfere with it. And the encryption is as secure as one of the most powerful tech companies of the world can make it (which is as secure as anything comes btw, and Intel will highly value this data).

There is a way you could undo it, but only Intel would be able to undo it. Also note that the Killswitch only disables the processor, and not the graphic cards, so I don't see how they come into place.

If a company wants to mess with its employees (I don't see why specifically) it will have its ways, and more efficient ways. What the Tech ITs do is the corporate world problem... they currently have the ability to patch every PC in the company with a virus that renders all data useless (especially at night, which is usually the time when PCs are patched), so I wouldn't know why this new technology is any worse. Actually if anything it's better since it is reversible. So if a Tech IT is mad at the company it could do many worse things than lock the company's CPUs which can be relatively easily undone.

You do point to many good cases (and I answered all your points to the best of my ability), but know that these new features certainly do not enable people to impair your computer more easily, if anything, in most cases they make it harder, and add a level of protection. Of course there are ways to abuse it, and go around it... but it's a layer more and it's safer.

If you disagree with Intel and I, then feel free to buy the Intel processors that don't have the vPro technology (there are many btw, several from the new generation as well) or buy AMD processors.
Edited by born2bwild - 1/11/11 at 8:15pm
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post #19 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild;11977996 
Well at least the thief will not be able to use your laptop without buying a new CPU. And since most thieves are not extremely tech savvy, they must go to a computer store to repair it, and they might notice that this laptop was stolen. Also, if the thief is tech savvy (which I might say it's quite rare to itself), then he will have to buy a new processor to make the PC function.

And trust me, once a few thieves steal computers and notice that they are all "broken" it will be a strong repellent.

Also, the Killswitch along with the on-processor data encryption will be able to save your data, which is quite important especially if you're a corporate worker.

The way to send a "kill" command is through Bluetooth and 3G networks. I believe that you have to contact Intel to disable the processor. There would be no way to block the 3G unless you're in a dead area (most of those areas don't even have access to this kind of technology), and no way to interfere with it. And the encryption is as secure as one of the most powerful tech companies of the world can make it (which is as secure as anything comes btw, and Intel will highly value this data).

There is a way you could undo it, but only Intel would be able to undo it. Also note that the Killswitch only disables the processor, and not the graphic cards, so I don't see how they come into place.

If a company wants to mess with its employees (I don't see why specifically) it will have its ways, and more efficient ways. What the Tech ITs do is the corporate world problem... they currently have the ability to patch every PC in the company with a virus that renders all data useless (especially at night, which is usually the time when PCs are patched), so I wouldn't know why this new technology is any worse. Actually if anything it's better since it is reversible. So if a Tech IT is mad at the company it could do many worse things than lock the company's CPUs which can be relatively easily undone.
You do point to many good cases (and I answered all your points to the best of my ability), but know that they do not enable people to impair your computer, if anything, in most cases they make it harder, and add a level of protection. Of course there are ways to abuse it, and go around it... but it's a layer more and it's safer.

If you disagree with Intel and I, then feel free to buy the Intel processors that don't have the vPro technology (there are many btw, several from the new generation as well) or buy AMD processors.

Interesting:
Yes, some thieves learn most do not as they are just looking for their next fix. The ideal about the store contacting the police is nice and in the situation you describe would be acceptable. I doubt very much the thief is going to the computer store most likely he goes directly to a pawn shop to hock the laptop for a couple of dollars. The pawn shop owner could potentially be implicated in receiving stolen property if reporting the laptop purchase. But I think we can agree it is very doubtful the laptop is coming back to the owner. Feature is worthless for recovery purposes except for isolated instances.

Yes, that is what using the encryption capability of the processor was assumed to be doing and is a very good ideal. This is a significant benefit as it would protect any data stored on the drive from inappropriate disclosure, which was mentioned in the previous thread. This is a very good benefit for a corporation as it may preclude the notification expense to individuals that had information disclosed in a security breach. It also provides benefit in protecting the information stored on the laptops.

No my understanding of the documentation indicates that a signal can be transmitted to disabled the processor or not received (Your assumption is only Intel has this capability – this may be true initially but is it going to be valid in a year or two.). In addition, from the description reference that processor can be disabled based upon either receiving a signal or not receiving within a certain period of time. Therefor how secure is the signal that is being transmitted? Encryption has been broken before. Also what happens for an extended outage and when the laptops don’t communicate within that timeframe.

Graphics cards can be used to significant enhance encryption cracking effectiveness, which I think or hope you know. With enough processing power this can be done in real time. What is the cost of a few tesla cards or professional graphic cards worth against the information value stored on a laptop containing merger or new technology.

I anticipate that the disable signals are coded to specific individual CPU and not using a single default revoke signal for all same batch processors. Also from the documentation the tech have the ability to transmit the kill and the recover signal. If the recovery or kill is transmitted and if someone controls one of the endpoints it can be obtained. Is a background check performed on the tech(s) that enables and disables this feature set. Is the background check done on a recurring basis.

No it not the company that wants to mess with the employees it is the tech wanting to mess with the employer or users? It is the tech misusing the features for laughs or profit. Depending upon the value of the data being protected, a simple bribe to a lowly level tech may obtain the ability to recover the data. Your point about deploying anti-virus and patches is valid but you are assuming the techs are allowed to move updates to production distribution servers (Anti-virus and patching) without testing. This is not a valid assumption in a Large IT shop. What is the effective control?

I would agree the bribe situation is not applicable for non-valuable data. But if a company is deploying this technology the information stored on those laptops has valuable or perceived to have value. Company could also just be avoiding legal notification costs in which case the point is mute.

Like I mentioned in the previous thread, it is a good ideal for corporations but is not really an effective security mechanism. The main benefit is obtained by encrypting the data via hardware.

Why deploy a killswitch for consumers, that really doesn’t provide a benefit and introduces potential risks, when you can just encrypt the data and obtain the same benefit?

Or as a speculation, is the feature set introduced to enable processor upgrade capabilities as was being tested.

On a side note the performance of the 2600K is very nice indeed and I have purchased many Intel and AMD processors in the pass and may even buy Sandy Bridges. Would have to implement mitigating controls to minimize the potential risks

Thank you for taking the time to respond as the discussion has merit at least from a security awareness perspective. wink.gif
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post #20 of 89
Hi all,
First post here.

I just wanted to ask if anyone has found an actual link to an Intel.com page referencing the lack of vPro on thei 7-2600k and i5-2500k. It's just because I found a similar image except the k-editions had vPro enabled (attached). Was this a decision that was made right before the launch? I would like to assume that I'm not the only person interested in knowing how the k editions had their vPro disabled. Thanks in advance.
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