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DO NOT use XSPC res tops with your Swiftech pumps... - Page 5

post #41 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse55 View Post
After reading your posts Undertheradar I would first like to applaud you for going to the effort to write all of that down!

Secondly, in answer to question on Pump tops and performance here is a pressure/flow graph for the MCP 355 + A bunch of tops:



As you can see the pump tops improve the maximum head pressure and maximum flow of the pump quite a bit. By reading your post it seems to me that as long as you are under 1.5 GPM with the stock top you should be fine, but at higher rates of flow the pump will start to degrade. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The one thing missing from that graph is the input current like the other graph I "quoted". All we know is that the voltage is constant, but we can see the the current varies with flow/pressure. It would be interesting to see a graph similar to the one Martin did for the stock pump but for the XSPC one. I see he has one in the full test report. I will have to look at this compared to the stock results to see if I can tell anything.
Edited by undertheradar - 1/13/11 at 7:19pm
post #42 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
I would ask if he actually had an engineer sign off on the mod or if this was done like so many 'backyard engineer' mods. Just because it works in one situation doesn't mean it will work in everyone else's. The modded pumps need to be tested with a wide range of restriction just like you would see IRL. I suspect this 'high flow' top might limit the range of back-pressures that this pump can safely operate with. While it is possible to improve on the pressure and flow characteristics of some OEM stuff by making the internals more slick & rounded or making the bends longer for less losses, what you are more likely doing if you see any improvement is making the pump more suitable for a more narrow range of operating conditions. The OEM design may not be optimal for YOUR setup because they have to cover a wide range of possible conditions. Im sure I could mod one of these pumps to give 500gph of flow at the same wattage! But it would require 1" pipe and as soon as you put a restrictive waterblock or radiator on it, the impeller would slip so far ahead (more distance between the impeller blades and impeller well) it would melt down in this application. More 'flow bias' can really work against you if you try to hook it up to a system that is more restrictive than usual.

To be honest i stopped reading your comment from the phrase backyard engineer,
As this is simply not the case XSPC is a widely known custom water cooling component producer to be honest when i got into water cooling i was surprised that the Americans heard of XSPC as its a British firm, but XSPC Make quality components like all their blocks rad and Pump tops its just unfortunate that the Res tops you speak of are breaking the pumps all the mods that XSPC Create are tested massively and when you fit a product you fit it at your own risk , if you don't want to take the risk of breaking the pump the "DONT FIT IT! " Simples as my meerkat friend would say ,
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post #43 of 80
Here is the data you requested undertheradar:

Stock Laing DDC 3.2 (MCP355 is a rebanded'd Laing)


With XSPC Reservoir Top Attached:



As you can see higher flow = more power consumed by the pump. The aftermarket tops do a good thing by increasing the overall head pressure at 1 GPM but make the pump operate outside of it's rated specification in a low restriction loop.
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post #44 of 80
Got my pump and res in around 2008, rock solid no problems, but i have a lot of fans on my 480. Have nothing under the pump, just sits on a board.
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post #45 of 80
I have yet to fire up my mcp355 (its attached to an xspc bay res), I don't suspect any issues or have any reservations/concerns. I have heard nothing but high praise for the DDC pumps. I get the feeling some are trying to make this like the meltdown Primochill had with the typhoon 3. just my
post #46 of 80
My apologies; I missed the response window due to having to go out and shovel (got a notable amount of snow in a few hours, though nothing bad). Should be able to get back in touch later today, though.
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post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasherht View Post
then you look at this, if you decrease resistance through the entire pump top, you are allowing more water to go into the pump, which takes more power to move, so in turn, will stress the pump more.
so the added water flow from the top is causing the pump to become stressed more, and heat up, which then, possibly kills it.
That's pretty much what I said at the top of page 3.
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post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post
I'm a bit late to the game I know, but it is actually the other way round. The pump will use MORE power at higher flow rates (lower restrictions), not less. Counter intuitive I know, but this has been proven by Martin's test
Thanks for providing that info. That I didn't know.
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post #49 of 80
i think i had the same res, and it leaked......
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post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
Those test results are inconclusive as far as the electrical parameters are concerned. Since its DC going in, we have no idea what the actual voltage/current phases are with respect to rotor position. The input to the pump itself, after the controller, is what would tell us more.
I never said they were conclusive, merely indicative; I used the ultimate get out word "maybe"

It depends on what is failing, if it is the motor then yes, it would be more useful to know what comes out of the controller. If the failure is in the controller, and said controller is designed to run with a maximum continuous input power of, say, 22W, putting 28W into it may well be the cause of "pump" failure. For all we know the motor itself may be fine.

There may be some AC dynamics going on in the controller / motor itself, but the DC input is still at a higher wattage than the stock pump, and the controller has to deal with that no matter what the motor "VA" is doing. This means that some part of the electrical system will exceed the stock operating conditions, and possibly the component ratings.

Note that again I am not offering any kind of proof or conclusive statement, just indicating a possible cause of the pump failure.


If anyone has a failed sample, would it be possible to take it apart (your warranty was void as soon as you changed the pump top) and try to locate the failed component? You never know, it might even be repairable. It is unlikely, but still worth a shot.

Interesting posts undertheradar, thanks for the info.
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