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-100c Single Stage Project

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Well it's sort of an Autocascade, and sort of not...

I have an AC window unit i got cheap and thought I'd play a bit.

Really the inspiration is Drewmeister more than anyone else. He's had a system for blending gasses that's given some amazing temps, and working in the science and medical cooling field of cooling, has the gasses and experience to make it happen.

There was a time that I wasn't a 'believer' but I realised that any limitations I placed on his work, I place on my own.


Took around 4 min to get the initial cooling working well, then a steady drop over the next 5-10 min to around -90c. Around 5 min after that, to -100c.

So this is a 1/2hp rotary, and the blend is 134a/290/1150. Enough of the lower pressure gasses to get started, and enough Ethylene to maintain the low temps.


Not pretty or even really well organised, just brazed in what was needed without a lot of fuss. Not going to be a finished unit how it is.


No load tests yet, but I'll clean up the evap and all that, get a bit better insulation, and go from there. I don't expect much, but if I can get even a 20% Ethylene 'cooling blend' to work, then that's enough to pull the temps down on load dramatically.


Currently around 1/3 of each gas, but I don't expect the Ethylene to remain at that level when it's entering the evap. Hard to explain exactly, but I am hoping that it can stay over 15% fully condensed Ethylene for actual evap cooling.


It's autocascading obviously, but not with phase separation as such. More of an enhanced blending system within the captube.

Wish I'd gotten pic of how it's been brazed, but the manifold in the pics is the start. The return gas uses it as the suction line heat exchanger, and then captube is a 2 part setup.
One end got crushed flat in a vise and brazed,and the other end I slid the coiled captube and 1/4" captube join/mixture chamber setup and crushed and brazed that with the inlet 1/8" and outlet 1/4" pipes sticking out.





That's a mockup of what it looks like under the insulation.
The pipes I used in the actual heat exchanger setup were cleaned and slightly 'scuffed' with emery cloth and cleaned again. Trying to get the heat transfer as good as possible in there.


The Captube is coiled enough to slide into the SLHX, and 2 kinds.

First length is 1/8", around 7'. Then it's brazed into a 6" piece of 1/4" copper pipe. Then it carries on as .031" captube, around 3'.

The 1/8" and 1/4" are coiled and brazed into the SLHX and it's a fairly tight fit.

The 31 is just wrapped, and I'm thinking of brazing that to the pipe.

No flexline for this though. No intention of this being a 'unit' just some experimentation. The gas blend is pretty standard to be honest. Started with a 40psi charge of 290. Then up to 80psi with 134a. After that, around 150psi total static with the 1150.


I added another small amount of R290, but my static is still around 130psi with a cold suction line, more likely 150psi still with it warm.

But I found a good blend, and the 6" piece of pipe seems to be working the way I'd hoped, making a chamber for the liquid low pressure stuff to help the 1150 condense, and then travel into the 31.

But the numbers speak for themself so far.

I'll be playing a bit here and there with this, try to find a blend of gas and a captube setup that really makes the high pressure blending work for me.

Don't know if I'll be able to get the Ethylene to stay condensing well enough to be part of the gas that's actually cooling with higher load, but it's a fun experiment.

I enjoy the research a lot more than the 'real work'

Gray
post #2 of 14
You aren't going to hear this much, but that seems like it is a little to cold. Considering if you touch it with your bare fingers I can confindently says they are gone.

But good work.
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post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobicon View Post
You aren't going to hear this much, but that seems like it is a little to cold. Considering if you touch it with your bare fingers I can confindently says they are gone.

But good work.


Not quite LN2 but it's not a 'real' Autocascade either.

I can't say 'never too cold' especially with Sandy Bridge on it's way in and rumours that it's another generation of cold issues to go with it, but you're right, though I'd be more nervous about my tongue

I used to bench a lot but now I'm sort of a refrigeration overclocker. Looking for tweaks and tricks to get the coolers even colder.

Besides, I think playing with fridges is actually cheaper than the hardware I used to kill benching

I remember one month I laid waste to around 3 grand worth of graphics and cpu's. That was hard to explain to the (now ex) wife
post #4 of 14
gonna build one for me????lol
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post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crantana View Post
gonna build one for me????lol
No way!

Dam Canadiadians

This is just a 'play' project for now. I'll know soon enough if it's viable though. If I get a good load result then it'll definitely show up in units I build in the future.

The only guy I know of that really has good success with blending high pressure gasses is that guy I mentioned, Drewmeister.

I wish I had his job Pretty much every gas under the sun, he has in his lab!

But who knows? You're local (hehe Newfoundland and BC are basically side by side right?) so I could just swing by with one

I'm afraid that for now though, a cascade is about the only way to get a really consistent -100c kind of result, but I'm working on it.



Gray
post #6 of 14
sounds good man........I cant wait to see more.......my phaser is 1hp rotary Mats. on r22.......pulls down -65C unloaded......I need more...
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post #7 of 14
Sounds promising
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post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
Well so far the best actual load holding has been 250w. Which is great considering previous attempts at low temp gas blending.

250w -45c. For a 1/2hp compressor, not bad, but nowhere near where I'd like to go with it.

-45c is at 8psi though, so I'm getting some condensing of the Ethylene, which is a good sign. I think it's too aggressive though. A certain amount of 'mixing' will take place but between a -40 gas and a -100 gas is a bit much.

So the next step is a multiple chambering setup, but still a single captube design.

I'll wait until I have some Ethane though. I have a feeling that I will see a much better mix happen if the gasses are closer in condensing requirements.

I ended up having to add a fair bit of both 290 and 134a.

The pressure was around 260psi on load on the high side, 275psi was the highest fluctuation. I like that, it's high but not unworkable.

Ethane will bring the lowest unloaded temp down a bit, but it's load that matters.

I'd like to see a 300w maximum whatever the temps, and 250 is all I can seem to get with this setup.

But if I could see 300w, and -50c on a 1/2hp compressor it would be something of a success.

Guess it's time to go back to the gas shop again already having to get some R14, so we'll see if I can swing some Ethane as well.

Phase get's expensive when you're just doing R&D.


Gray
post #9 of 14
Gray awesome work dirty and cheap just how i like my women
Quote:
But who knows? You're local (hehe Newfoundland and BC are basically side by side right?
don't u mean side by each , well thats how i herd it being said in his parts

i have nothing against ppl from the rock i work with a bunch of them makes the day go by fast with lots of laughs
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post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
The usual kiddin' around. Thankfully Canuck's don't take thing too seriously

After a bit more playing around, I can sure see the Ethylene being 'hesitant' to condense.

Funny though, I did a bit of variable load on it to get a bit more info and it's actually colder at 250w than 200w. Guess that little extra pressure is enough to make the Ethylene go to work?

Around -40 at 200w. Pushed it back to 250 and it goes up to around -38, then crawls back down to around -45.

Weird unit

But it really reaffirms my thinking that Ethane is going to be a lot more effective.

Good chance the actual temps may not be greatly different at low/no load, since I may see a decrease in the lowside pressure with a similar amount of Ethane condensing.

20% or so seems to be where the Ethylene comes to life, and the other gasses help it work. As long as the HX stays frosty it's getting there.

Cooldown now that the 'blend' is more or less where it needs to be is so fast though.

10 seconds, if that, to around -20. The 134a condenses almost instantly. Hangs there a sec, then it's fairly quick to -50 and crawls to -60c. That's after a day of sitting, so I know what it's 'behaviour' will be like in an actual unit if it makes it there one day.

-70ish is about the coldest now with it so heavily diluted. -55 at around 100w, -40 at 200w, and -45 at 250.

Guess that's the final 'result' for this iteration of the project. Time for some upgrades and changes, but it's a great start. Seeing it actually use the Ethylene really gives me hope that some new ideas in there will only see it get better

I'll call the guys and see what the Ethane's gonna run. My luck? Price is still gonna be high :

Gray
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