Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [ZDNet]Google Removes Support for H.264 in Chrome!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[ZDNet]Google Removes Support for H.264 in Chrome! - Page 3

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
5 years from now if I wanted to develop a new web browser based on the open HTML5 standard, I would be unable to unless I payed patent licensing fees to MPEG-LA. That is fundamentally wrong.
No, you just couldn't ship an h264 decoding implementation along with it, unless you payed the licensing fees.

The way you get around this is to use the decoders present on the user's system.
Mozilla achieves this via plugins (http://www.interoperabilitybridges.c...for-wmp-plugin) and Chromium can be made to do so as well (with some source code changes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
Currently it is "free" but that may change in the future if it becomes more dominant.
It would be hard for h.264 to get "Any More" dominate than it already is.
It's used in virtually everything - from video streaming, to television broadcasts, to bluray discs. Hardware acceleration for it is everywhere as well.

I honestly think if they were going to do something regarding royalties and web video, they would have done so already.
Edited by Trigunflame - 1/13/11 at 9:45am
i7 930
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 [4.0@1.23v] [4.2@1.32v] ASUS P6T-Deluxe [v1] EVGA GTX 480 SC+ [850/2000@1.100v] OCZ Gold DDR3 [3x2GB] [1600@8-8-8-24-1N] 
Hard Drive
OCZ Vertex 2e (120GB) SSD 
  hide details  
Reply
i7 930
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 [4.0@1.23v] [4.2@1.32v] ASUS P6T-Deluxe [v1] EVGA GTX 480 SC+ [850/2000@1.100v] OCZ Gold DDR3 [3x2GB] [1600@8-8-8-24-1N] 
Hard Drive
OCZ Vertex 2e (120GB) SSD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 34
Quote:
First, you're confusing rich internet development techologies/platforms with a video codec. But regardless, this will change. Flash and Silverlight are probably in trouble over the long term, as a lot of their features can be replicated using HTML5.
Ah, cheers for clearing up that for me, I thought it was some sort of video player.
post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Rounding error? Chrome could very well surpass Firefox by the end of the year.
Yeahhhh...I'll believe that when I see it. Our internal analytics show that, in the traffic we get, Chrome is a complete non-factor. (And we're not a fly-by-night site, it's state government that gets a couple million hits a month.) It is such a non-factor that I will not even officially support it in our app development testing. It will "probably" work, since it's WebKit and we do test against Safari; but I make no guarantees.

Quote:
Its the only browser thats gaining marketshare.
Well, yes and no. Of course it's the PC browser gaining marketshare...IE has nowhere to go but down, and the anti-IE crowd that embraced Firefox have a healthy population of people that a) like to try things, or b) like Google in general. So I wouldn't consider this a surprise.

But to say it's the only browser gaining ground doesn't seem right...maybe it's the only one gaining ground on a PC platform, but that ignores the very large and important space of mobile users. The phenomenal increase in the number of iPhones and Androids out there, at an ever increasing rate, represents an undeniable increase in market share from browsers not in PC-centric analyses.

Quote:
And you're forgetting the massive influence that Google has on the matter. Not only do they operate the largest video site on the planet, they also have control over the largest mobile OS (or will shortly).
And your true pro-Google colors are revealed. I, for one (and I know I am not just one), do not share your belief that the ChromeOS is going to make the big splash and "take over" the mobile space. I expect more of a thud. I truly believe the ChromeOS vision is just like Oracle's thin client press in the 90s: too far ahead of its time at the time, even though it makes perfect sense now.

But back to the point, I do not think that YouTube alone can force a change such as this. Nor would Google even try to ramrod it, they're not idiots after all. They will have to lobby and convince the publishing world that their format is better for everyone, and only then would they start changing things. To do otherwise would be to alienate the ecosystem they depend upon.

Quote:
If Google wants Ogg Theora or WebM to be the standard, then it will be the standard.
You give them too much credit. Google has tried to create standards before and failed. Google has created many thingamajigs before that have failed and been yanked. They are not omnipotent.

Quote:
And most codecs don't require licensing fees either. JPEG and PNG don't cost money to use, MP3 doesn't cost money to use, Javascript doesn't cost money to use. You cannot base an open standard on something that costs money. MPEG-LA has only made H.264 license free for 5 years, and even then its only for "internet video".
Fair enough. GIF was free, and then it wasn't...and the world moved on to PNG and JPG. I'm not saying it won't happen...I'm just arguing against the notion that a) H.264 is a terrible thing, and b) Google is God and we will all do whatever they say.

Quote:
5 years from now if I wanted to develop a new web browser based on the open HTML5 standard, I would be unable to unless I payed patent licensing fees to MPEG-LA. That is fundamentally wrong.
But that's how everything works. Whomever creates something has the right to charge for its use. Just because it has become a standard does not mean I forfeit those rights...

I always find these "it should be free" arguments amusing and confusing at the same time, because I just don't understand the philosophy of the "software should be free" mindset. It's a difficult line for me to walk, since the other side of the argument seems to promote software patents and/or DRM...which I have many issues with, but at the same time people have the right to be paid for their work...
Edited by VulcanDragon - 1/13/11 at 4:11pm
Vulcan's PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 6700K Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 EVGA GTX 970 G.Skill Ripjaws 4 DDR4-3000 16GB (4x4) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M500 SSD Western Digital Caviar LG Blu-Ray burner Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 Acer XB270HU Logitech G15 ThermalTake Smart 750W 
CaseMouse
Lian Li PC-6077 Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
Vulcan's PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 6700K Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 EVGA GTX 970 G.Skill Ripjaws 4 DDR4-3000 16GB (4x4) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M500 SSD Western Digital Caviar LG Blu-Ray burner Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 Acer XB270HU Logitech G15 ThermalTake Smart 750W 
CaseMouse
Lian Li PC-6077 Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Yeahhhh...I'll believe that when I see it. Our internal analytics show that, in the traffic we get, Chrome is a complete non-factor. (And we're not a fly-by-night site, it's state government that gets a couple million hits a month.) It is such a non-factor that I will not even officially support it in our app development testing. It will "probably" work, since it's WebKit and we do test against Safari; but I make no guarantees.
Doesn't the government still use IE?

Oh and one website with a couple of million hits vs 3 million sites and 15 billion hits/month.

I'd say I have you outclassed by a few orders of magnitude.

Quote:
Fair enough. GIF was free, and then it wasn't...and the world moved on to PNG and JPG. I'm not saying it won't happen...I'm just arguing against the notion that a) H.264 is a terrible thing, and b) Google is God and we will all do whatever they say.
H.264 is great. The people behind H.264... not so much.


Quote:
But that's how everything works. Whomever creates something has the right to charge for its use. Just because it has become a standard does not mean I forfeit those rights...
I believe thats the definition of "open".

Quote:
I always find these "it should be free" arguments amusing and confusing at the same time, because I just don't understand the philosophy of the "software should be free" mindset. It's a difficult line for me to walk, since the other side of the argument seems to promote software patents and/or DRM...which I have many issues with, but at the same time people have the right to be paid for their work...
Open standards should be free. You're completely free to ask for money for your software, but at no point should you ever demand that people buy it. If MPEG-LA wants to sell H.264 then it can do it without the support of the W3C.

I don't quite agree with Stallman's opinion that everything should be free, but I think if you release good software, then the community will respond with their support. Look at Apache. Their software is running most of the websites on the Internet, and its all completely free. Instead of charging for their product, they receive contributions from supporters who wish to see the project maintained.


I mean, would you rather support a developer who freely gives his product away, or a patent troll?
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 4670k ASUS Maximus VI Gene Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB Kingston Hyper-X 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 830 OCZ Vertex 3 WD6401AALS WD5000AAKS 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Noctua NH-D14 elementary OS Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM LG W2442PA-BF 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Corsair HX750W Corsair Graphite 600T Logitech G700 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 4670k ASUS Maximus VI Gene Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB Kingston Hyper-X 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 830 OCZ Vertex 3 WD6401AALS WD5000AAKS 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Noctua NH-D14 elementary OS Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM LG W2442PA-BF 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Corsair HX750W Corsair Graphite 600T Logitech G700 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
I mean, would you rather support a developer who freely gives his product away, or a patent troll?
lol really? So you'd be happy working at Burger King, *some law firm*, at a hospital or wherever you happen to work for free and rely solely on the goodwill of people who appreciate your work and wish to see that you prosper?

You must have had a rather nice inheritance or get a really nice allowance.
The Big Ugly 2.5
(14 items)
 
Spectre x360
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600k Asus P8P67 B3 MSI GTX 980 GTX 580 (physx) 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16GB Corsair XMS3 1600 Samsung 850 Pro 512GB Barracuda 7200.12 1TB Hitachi 7K3000 2TB 
Optical DriveOSMonitorPower
Pioneer BDR-206D W7 Pro x64 Dell U3415W Corsair AX850 
CaseMouse
Corsair 600T Logitech G500 
CPURAMHard DriveOS
i7 6500U 8GB DDL3L 256GB M.2  Windows 10 
MonitorKeyboardCase
2560 x 1440 Touchscreen Awesome! Aluminum Billet 
  hide details  
Reply
The Big Ugly 2.5
(14 items)
 
Spectre x360
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600k Asus P8P67 B3 MSI GTX 980 GTX 580 (physx) 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16GB Corsair XMS3 1600 Samsung 850 Pro 512GB Barracuda 7200.12 1TB Hitachi 7K3000 2TB 
Optical DriveOSMonitorPower
Pioneer BDR-206D W7 Pro x64 Dell U3415W Corsair AX850 
CaseMouse
Corsair 600T Logitech G500 
CPURAMHard DriveOS
i7 6500U 8GB DDL3L 256GB M.2  Windows 10 
MonitorKeyboardCase
2560 x 1440 Touchscreen Awesome! Aluminum Billet 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 34
Yea... I must be unique. I mean, the world runs on free, open source software, but that doesn't really count, right?
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 4670k ASUS Maximus VI Gene Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB Kingston Hyper-X 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 830 OCZ Vertex 3 WD6401AALS WD5000AAKS 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Noctua NH-D14 elementary OS Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM LG W2442PA-BF 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Corsair HX750W Corsair Graphite 600T Logitech G700 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 4670k ASUS Maximus VI Gene Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB Kingston Hyper-X 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 830 OCZ Vertex 3 WD6401AALS WD5000AAKS 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Noctua NH-D14 elementary OS Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM LG W2442PA-BF 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Corsair HX750W Corsair Graphite 600T Logitech G700 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Doesn't the government still use IE?

Oh and one website with a couple of million hits vs 3 million sites and 15 billion hits/month.

I'd say I have you outclassed by a few orders of magnitude.
I wasn't trying to say we're on the same scale, I think you know that. I mean, geez...we're outclassed in technical skill by Google and YouTube too..care to throw me a veiled insult about that while you're at it?

My point was that, as a high-profile government agency for a state with a very large population, we do get an not insigificant amount of traffic; enough to be representative of reality. These are facts, hard numbers that I have seen logged on our own servers; not statistics crunched, rolled up, massaged, and spun by faceless stats groups. So I will budge no farther than to assert that our single agency results probably correlate strongly with broader mid-western analytics, and at least moderately with national analytics. Certainly I will make no claim about global stats, knowing quite well that the software commonly used in the US is not so prevalent in other nations, and that we do NOT get very much international traffic (some, but not much).

Quote:
H.264 is great. The people behind H.264... not so much.
Fair enough, I think I get your point.

Quote:
I mean, would you rather support a developer who freely gives his product away, or a patent troll?
Well...I don't like the question, I suppose. Probably because I don't consider H.264 to be patent troll material...everything patented is not held by a patent troll. There may be differing opinions, but I always considered a patent troll to be someone sitting on patents that should not have been allowed to become patents. Like the age-old patent on "one-click purchasing" that Amazon had...puh-lease.

But to directly answer your question, I would certainly rather support the free product; but I can't say I always would. That would depend entirely on the relative value of the two products, i.e. how good is the free product vs. does the paid product provide enough additional value to pay for it. I do it every day...there are tons of free games, but I tend to opt for paid games instead. Conversely, I do of course use JPG images and not GIF...there is no value in GIF for me. So I guess I just don't take a philosophical stance toward software any more than I would any other tool or entertainment product.
Vulcan's PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 6700K Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 EVGA GTX 970 G.Skill Ripjaws 4 DDR4-3000 16GB (4x4) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M500 SSD Western Digital Caviar LG Blu-Ray burner Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 Acer XB270HU Logitech G15 ThermalTake Smart 750W 
CaseMouse
Lian Li PC-6077 Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
Vulcan's PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 6700K Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 EVGA GTX 970 G.Skill Ripjaws 4 DDR4-3000 16GB (4x4) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M500 SSD Western Digital Caviar LG Blu-Ray burner Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro x64 Acer XB270HU Logitech G15 ThermalTake Smart 750W 
CaseMouse
Lian Li PC-6077 Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
I thought Firefox does not want to support h.264 either because they want to support open source standards, not proprietary ones.
I believe Firefox 4 is only going to support Ogg Theora and other completely Free standards as part of its HTML5 support. So it's not just Chrome, there's a big player in town that started down this path a long time ago.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E GTX 560 Ti 448 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 MSI X58 Pro-E GTX 560 Ti 448 3x2GB G.Skill DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
840 Pro Caviar Black LG BD-ROM Windows 8.1 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2713HM Dell U2311H Turbo-Trak (Google it :D) Corsair HX-520 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM690 Mionix Avior 7000 Everglide Titan AKG K 242 HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 34
Yeah, and they have been getting criticized for it the entire time.

Thankfully, there was a plugin released that added support for h.264 via html5 in FireFox.
Edited by Trigunflame - 1/14/11 at 1:08pm
i7 930
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 [4.0@1.23v] [4.2@1.32v] ASUS P6T-Deluxe [v1] EVGA GTX 480 SC+ [850/2000@1.100v] OCZ Gold DDR3 [3x2GB] [1600@8-8-8-24-1N] 
Hard Drive
OCZ Vertex 2e (120GB) SSD 
  hide details  
Reply
i7 930
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 930 [4.0@1.23v] [4.2@1.32v] ASUS P6T-Deluxe [v1] EVGA GTX 480 SC+ [850/2000@1.100v] OCZ Gold DDR3 [3x2GB] [1600@8-8-8-24-1N] 
Hard Drive
OCZ Vertex 2e (120GB) SSD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 34
What sites stream in H.264, that you're all whining about this? ...Yeah, nothing of value was lost.
Edited by Diabolical999 - 1/14/11 at 3:12am
●๑۩۩๑●
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K @ 4.4GHz (1.34v) Gigabyte P67A-UD4-B3 Gigabyte GTX 470 SOC @ 825MHz 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz (CL8) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Cooler Master Hyper N520 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 ASUS VH236H 23" 1080p | 2ms 
PowerCaseAudio
Corsair TX650w (V1) Xigmatek Utgard X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 
  hide details  
Reply
●๑۩۩๑●
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K @ 4.4GHz (1.34v) Gigabyte P67A-UD4-B3 Gigabyte GTX 470 SOC @ 825MHz 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz (CL8) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Cooler Master Hyper N520 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 ASUS VH236H 23" 1080p | 2ms 
PowerCaseAudio
Corsair TX650w (V1) Xigmatek Utgard X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Software News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [ZDNet]Google Removes Support for H.264 in Chrome!