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[DON] AMD Bulldozer 8-Core CPU 50% Faster Than Core i7 950 - Page 5  

post #41 of 195
This would be great if this is true. Now all we need is asus to stick an nforce chip in the next crosshair rog.

Plus you know that when AMD hit 22nm, youre am4 board will probably support that too.
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post #42 of 195
I'm getting sick of reading mistakes. The fact is that BD will have 8 real cores instead of 4 real cores and 4 logical cores. If you've read the Bulldozer Blog (which is aimed at servers) then even for the desktop platform, more real cores= better performance.

more cores=bigger e-peen too

which in that case...

NEEDS MOAR CORES!
post #43 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasefrench View Post
This would be great if this is true. Now all we need is asus to stick an nforce chip in the next crosshair rog.

Plus you know that when AMD hit 22nm, youre am4 board will probably support that too.
SLi hax>nforce
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncholowapo View Post
I'm getting sick of reading mistakes. The fact is that BD will have 8 real cores instead of 4 real cores and 4 logical cores. If you've read the Bulldozer Blog (which is aimed at servers) then even for the desktop platform, more real cores= better performance.

more cores=bigger e-peen too

which in that case...

NEEDS MOAR CORES!
lol THIS!!!
cant wait for BD. i hope they come out with a AM3 BD like they came out with the phII 940 for AM2+!
    
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post #44 of 195
Why is an SLI hack better than a nforce chip. Surely the nforce chip means there is some form of hardware requirement to run an SLI setup to the best of its abilities.
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post #45 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post
I'm more than likely getting BD if that's true. No I'm feeling luck I haven't received any money yet. I almost jumped the SB ship.

But I'm still uncertain about this. Let's assume this is the new Athlon64 and Nehalem Core i7s will be like Pentium Ds. We have to keep in mind that Nehalem was released in Q4 2008 and BD is going to be something like Q2/Q3 2011? That's about 3 years difference. So I wonder if I should just hang on to my Yorkfield a little longer for Z68 or X68 (whatever it's called ).
Keep in mind SB is mainly bringing the platform up to the CPU, hence why I really doubt even the x68 i7s will be much faster than the current x58 i7s. (i.e. 1156 vs 1155, there are increases but they're not that big)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncholowapo View Post
I'm getting sick of reading mistakes. The fact is that BD will have 8 real cores instead of 4 real cores and 4 logical cores. If you've read the Bulldozer Blog (which is aimed at servers) then even for the desktop platform, more real cores= better performance.

more cores=bigger e-peen too

which in that case...

NEEDS MOAR CORES!
More real pipelines, this is pretty much HT but they've added a Integer pipeline as well to put it in really basic terms that aren't close to being right tbh if you go technical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasefrench View Post
Why is an SLI hack better than a nforce chip. Surely the nforce chip means there is some form of hardware requirement to run an SLI setup to the best of its abilities.
No, that's a false rumour propagated by nVidia so they have a legit reason to say "No SLI without nForce", it's why x58 got SLI.

nForce4 was the last good nForce, ever since then the chipsets have been crappy and hot running, only usable if you can't get an Intel/AMD chipset.
    
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post #46 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfluenza View Post
SLi hax>nforce

lol THIS!!!
cant wait for BD. i hope they come out with a AM3 BD like they came out with the phII 940 for AM2+!
AM2+ was a stepping stone between AM2 and AM3 so people could use their older DDR2 and have faster HT newer boards and chips. There were very few AM2+ cpus, I see AM3+ the same way, it's backwards compatible with AM3, it's a stepping stone, an appeasement to socket compatiblity. I can see the "real" Bulldozers coming out on AM4, with backwards compatibility to the first Bulldozer's, but bye bye AM3 cpu compatibility. That's when i'll be looking to upgrade.
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post #47 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
AM2+ was a stepping stone between AM2 and AM3 so people could use their older DDR2 and have faster HT newer boards and chips. There were very few AM2+ cpus, I see AM3+ the same way, it's backwards compatible with AM3, it's a stepping stone, an appeasement to socket compatiblity. I can see the "real" Bulldozers coming out on AM4, with backwards compatibility to the first Bulldozer's, but bye bye AM3 cpu compatibility. That's when i'll be looking to upgrade.
AM4 will be when DDR4 comes out, that'll be the only difference between AM3+ and AM4 probably...And DDR4 is 2012.
    
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post #48 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0m3g4 View Post
4 cores, 8 modules... which is kinda like 4 cores 8 threads? no?
no

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-Ball View Post
I know it's a "rumor", but c'mon AMD, do you really need 8 cores to be faster than a Quad+HT i7 950?
There are two different design philispohies, one says more cores is the route to better performance. The other says you can do it with higher clock speeds and fewer cores.

You need to stop looking at the specs and start looking at the price tags. When it comes to compeition, it is not HOW you get the performance as much as it is what the performance is at a particular price level.

I have never seen someone say "I need four cores, what is the best performance that I can get for that?" But these forums are littered with people asking "what is the best performance for $300."

Quote:
Originally Posted by exousia View Post
Obviously pure speculation. I'll wait for a proper review, thanks.
A wise man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR Mclaren View Post
The bulldozer is 8 cores or 4 and 4 threads ??
8 cores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR Mclaren View Post
My dilemma will be....get a AM3+ mobo and bulldozer

or wait for AM4 boards and just get a Phenom II X6 this year
AM2 = DDR-2
AM3 = DDR-3
AM4 = welll, you get the picture.

Do you have any idea what DDR-4 schedules look like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post
Nobody brought up transistor count yet? Just as an example, I could care less if it's an 8 core, 1B transistor cpu, vs. a quad core 1B transistor cpu if either can max out all cores in programs optimized for a quad, such as GTA IV. So if it's really 50% faster than an i7 950 this would be major. Contrast this with the current situation, where 6 "slow cores" isn't equal to 4 fast cores(I'm guessing this is why some are skeptical about AMD throwing in extra cores)-- the current Phenom II X6's are pretty much the same as a PhII X4 in single threaded benches- which does me no good for gaming.

And to clarify, I believe Bulldozer will come as an 8-core CPU. 2 cores will make up each module, which will be able to simultaneously handle a single thread. I.E. for practical purposes it would work as a quad when needed. So its more like 8 cores, 4 or 8 threads(depending on the cpu's workload). I might be a little off on some of this, but 8 cores/8 threads is 100% certain.
Transistor count is meaningless; while you can compare, transistor price does not correlate to anything that impacts a customer. There is price, there is performance and there is power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post
So basically Bulldozer does not have AVX and makes up for it by having 2 128 bit FPUs?
No, Bulldozer has AVX.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
HT, in all probability takes much less die space, to implement than adding another integer core to a module.

Best numbers I've seen are ~12% (from JF-AMD) for AMDs approach (a whole other integer pipeline and L1 cache) and ~5% for Intel's (based on older Pentium IV numbers and if anything, I would expect it to be less now). This is for the cores only, and doesn't include uncore/NB.

How much performance, on average, that die space pays for will dictate who has the more efficient approach. However, you'd need actual performance numbers and transistor counts/die-sizes to determine this.
If you took four cores out of a zambezi you'd have ~95% of the total silicon space. So implementing bulldozer and adding additional cores is just as efficient as adding HT from a silicon perspective. But cores scale way better than HT.
post #49 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_clayman View Post
wait...

8 is twice as fast as 4.
so why is an 8 core only 50% faster than a 4 core with hyperthreading.

does that mean hyperthreading is only half as fast as a real physical core, equaling like about 6 cores? or is my math way off.
Actually that is around the more accepted performance benifit of HT, where a virtual core is around 50% as fast as a true core, from that, in theory this should be true, in method it may not be but still.

As others have said
AMD: 1 Module = 2 cores = 2 Threads
Intel: 1 Module = 1 Core + 1 Virtual Core = 2 Threads

AMD and Intel both have primarily have 4 Module Chips, meaning Intel chips will be 4 Cores + 4 Virtual Cores with 8 threads, and AMD will be 8 Cores with 8 threads.

Of coarse this is a rumor and all of my math is just a "In Thoery" Calculation.
post #50 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasefrench View Post
Why is an SLI hack better than a nforce chip. Surely the nforce chip means there is some form of hardware requirement to run an SLI setup to the best of its abilities.
Nope, there isn't any hardware requirement at all, beyond PCI-E.

It's all licensing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
If you took four cores out of a zambezi you'd have ~95% of the total silicon space. So implementing bulldozer and adding additional cores is just as efficient as adding HT from a silicon perspective. But cores scale way better than HT.
I wasn't referring to total silicon space. I was excluding the L3 cache, IMC, etc, as the best number I have for HT's footprint comes from before any of that was on-die.

I doubt HT is even 5% of the total silicon on an i7, probably closer to 2%. Still the difference is likely very trivial when looking at the CPU as a whole, and I do not doubt you when you say the cores scale better.
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