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[Redmondpie] Geohot speaks openly with G4 about Sony Lawsuit against him - Page 6

post #51 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkapoc View Post
Any company can do that at ANY time... if he wins it could be a great thing for the ps3 community though.
Really though?
That's like saying I can't build my own boxes for my stereo... piss off I own it.
Mmmm... so because you own a gun you have the right to equip it with a silencer? (Which is illegal)

I guess you also have the right to smoke marijuana since you own the plants and grew them yourself in your house.

Both are pretty extreme examples, but they follow the same logic you're insisting is "right." Just because you bought a product, does not mean you can do whatever you like with it.

For the record I'm in no way a huge Sony fan. I would love to see the console age diminish and reinvigorate PC gaming.

Terms of agreement. A company can say anything in their terms of agreement so long as it is not invading others rights and they have the legal power if you violate any of the terms.

Quote:
SONY PS3 TERMS OF SERVICE AND USER AGREEMENT
7. GENERAL LICENSE RESTRICTIONS AND TERMS

... You may not sell, rent, sublicense, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Property... you may not reproduce or transfer any portion of the Property... You may not bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, digital rights management or authentication mechanism..

Edited by Stealth Pyros - 1/14/11 at 8:03am
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post #52 of 171
Last time I checked, a ps3 was not an illegal weapon, or drug, nor were there any laws that make physically modifying a ps3 a crime.

Now, illegally obtaining/sharing pirated games, yes that would be a crime.
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post #53 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpriess View Post
You can code whatever you want on your hardware, but making it public knowing it will eventually hurt the company that created it is what I think is wrong..

And I would have to say I'm allied to Sony [or any company for that matter]; at the end, if it wasn't because of their investment, we would've never had anything to 'play' with..
OK SO Lets follow your logic.

I have a PC. Lets say I want to make a backup copy of a DVD movie that I purchased legally. It's got a copy protection on it. I use a typical "dvd-decrypter" and use it to back up my DVD -- which is illegal.

Now, is Intel going to sue the maker of this "dvd-decrypter"? How about any other "hardware" manufacturer that MAKES a PC? inside MY PC some manufacturers include:

Auzentech
AMD/ATI
Creative
Razer
Samsung
Intel
Hynix
Corsair
etc..

Are they all going to sue that one person who enabled me and thousands others to bypass the copy-protection / DRM scheme, because they can cite "lost" sales???

I just don't get Sony and those trying to justify Sony.

I bought a piece of hardware. Before PAYING for it, it does not belong to me. After PAYING (i.e. purchase it with a common, acceptable monitary means), it becomes MINE. Sony cannot even cite that the machine is being used out of its original intent. I can buy a PS3 and use it as a pillow if I want, which is clearly not the original intent of the hardware. I can buy a PS3 and not purchase ANY SINGLE GAME. Does that mean that this is a "lost" sale? I do not see Sony in any legal grounds here.
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post #54 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth View Post
I don't think it is up to you to decide what should be in a system that you neither manufactured, nor programmed. This is Sony property regardless of our opinions on what should be on there.

He's just another hacker looking for justification.
yea but i bough the system so i own the system i can burn it drown it let gravity take its course on a 5 floor building or hack it either way it mine so its up to me to decide what i should do in the system that i bough. hell all i want to do is fell nostalgic.
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post #55 of 171
What's next? Motherboard manufacturers will say that it's illegal to overclock?
    
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post #56 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
From what I understand, games can be hacked, though it requires some additional hacking that some hacker will have to figure out how to hack.

This is slippery-slope hacking that they inadvertently caused.



Its not about rooting your console! If you can root your smart phone, I'm sure its fine to root your console or mod other junk around your house.

I fear this will give rise to privateers and the black market which would be taking away from the gaming industry.





Who cares what you do within the privacy of your home However, don't try and make money from other people's intellectual property.
Who cares if it's 'rooting' or running text pictures of boobies programs? What an individual does with it is besides the point. The bottom line is the right to do whatever you want with a product that you've purchased. I stopped buying anything sony as much as possible years ago because of this very behavior from them (sueing the guy that wrote 'dancing' programs for the robot dogs years ago).

The 'leasing license' fantasy so many companies like to put in their eulas gets shot down every time it's been challenged in court. People need to realize eula is not law if it contradicts it.

Personally, when I 'buy' a product, it's mine. I'm going to do whatever I like with it wether the manuf. likes it or not. It's a slippery slope on both side of the hill. People accept crap like this too much next thing you know we'll have Toyota running around sueing owners of modified Supras because "That was not our intended usage/design".

You have a similar situation currently with the kinect. Many cg anim. hobbyists are excited about using it for homebrew motion capture, which is a perfectly non destructive (quite the opposite really) usage of the device. However, this obviously is not the 'intended' use......god forbid someone hacked their product into doing something that's actually useful.

If companies like sony have their way, such things will simply not be possible.
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post #57 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by kppanic View Post
OK SO Lets follow your logic.

I have a PC. Lets say I want to make a backup copy of a DVD movie that I purchased legally. It's got a copy protection on it. I use a typical "dvd-decrypter" and use it to back up my DVD -- which is illegal.
Not illegal. Your point ends there. If you already legally own a copy of the movie, it's totally legal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kppanic View Post
I bought a piece of hardware. Before PAYING for it, it does not belong to me. After PAYING (i.e. purchase it with a common, acceptable monitary means), it becomes MINE. Sony cannot even cite that the machine is being used out of its original intent. I can buy a PS3 and use it as a pillow if I want, which is clearly not the original intent of the hardware. I can buy a PS3 and not purchase ANY SINGLE GAME. Does that mean that this is a "lost" sale? I do not see Sony in any legal grounds here.
... Ok? The terms of agreement of owning a PS3 don't state anything about using it as a pillow, nor does it obligate you to buy anything to use on the PS3. The terms DO state, however, that you may not decompile, reverse engineer, nor disassemble/bypass any part of their intellectual property, including encryption, security, and DRM. GeoHot bypassed the security encryption for installing custom code on the hardware, therefor violating the terms of agreement, therefor breeching a contract which is legally punishable if the intellectual property owner seeks action. I can't believe so many people actually feel GeoHot is totally clear; obviously there are many more pirates around than we even believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pash1k View Post
What's next? Motherboard manufacturers will say that it's illegal to overclock?
... no. Motherboards come with overclocking features that allow you to overclock in the first place.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 1/14/11 at 8:45am
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post #58 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoat333 View Post
Last time I checked, a ps3 was not an illegal weapon, or drug, nor were there any laws that make physically modifying a ps3 a crime.

Now, illegally obtaining/sharing pirated games, yes that would be a crime.
Yeah it is what Stealth Pyros is saying. In reality when you buy play your ps3 your agreeing to this "... You may not sell, rent, sublicense, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Property... you may not reproduce or transfer any portion of the Property... You may not bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, digital rights management or authentication mechanism.." which means you DO NOT own that ps3 technically and you openly agreed to it.
post #59 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by pash1k View Post
What's next? Motherboard manufacturers will say that it's illegal to overclock?
holly crap that was my comeback for anyone that was going to comment on my post but yea then everyone here will justify them self just like he is doing
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post #60 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
SONY PS3 TERMS OF SERVICE AND USER AGREEMENT
7. GENERAL LICENSE RESTRICTIONS AND TERMS

... You may not sell, rent, sublicense, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Property... you may not reproduce or transfer any portion of the Property... You may not bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, digital rights management or authentication mechanism..

Terms of agreement. A company can say anything in their terms of agreement so long as it is not invading others rights and they have the legal power if you violate any of the terms.

If you look at fail0verflow's video, they did not:

1. Bypass;
2. Disable; or
3. Circumvent

their encryption or security. From the looks of it, Sony failed at designing and coding. That is just like going into a math exam and the teachers accidentally put the answers out along with the questions. They may VOID the validity of the answers given by the students on the grounds that the students may or may not have gotten the answers without the "answers" but they simply cannot hold the students accountable for "cheating." The students did not bypass, disable, circumvent, or certainly "cheated" to get the right answers.
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