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[Redmondpie] Geohot speaks openly with G4 about Sony Lawsuit against him - Page 8

post #71 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
Sony didn't accidentally give out the answer to their encryption. It took years for anyone to find the answer. Completely different example you're throwing there.
..

They DID accidentally give out the key. You mean if it was not accident, they gave it away intentionally?

It took years because we didn't know where and what to look for.

Sony didn't certainly INTENTIONALLY use their master key in every single polynomial equations. It was ACCIDENT, or better put, it was POORLY designed. Its inherent nature is that once you have the key (or know where to look for) you can use the key to open anything and everything else.

Lets say the teachers ACCIDENTALLY (or unknowingly) put the answers along with the questions, but only in "coded" form that teachers use amongst each other to communicate. Does that change the situation even a little bit? NO. Most of the students didn't know that the answers were right there because it didn't look like answers, but some of the students, after years, finally figured out what the "code" was and therefore got access to the answers. Are the students "cheating?" Or is it the fault of the teachers for leaking the code? Are you going to hold accountable that ONE student who figured out the code?

What about those early adopters (i.e. me) who bought the PS3 because it could install other OS? And then Sony decided to take it away? I understand in EULA it states that Sony may change the intended use of the hardware whenever they see fit, but really is that fair? I just lost a part of the function I bought the original hardware for, therefore removal of such feature should entitle me to a fraction of the value of the hardware that I paid for.

Why do you not realize this?

Also if you look at closely at ANY EULAs and followed it, you'd be breaking their Agreement (NOT LAW) if you ever flashed any piece of hard with any custom firmware. Is my router company going to sue the person who came up with a custom firmware that is perhaps better than the stock firmware they put out on the market?
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post #72 of 171
its funny how people here want to sink geo for something maybe everyone here is guilty of. Like you guys never fired up a emulator or download a song or watched twilight in the your from so your friends wont know about it or just download a game to see how it ran in your pc, please if your not guilty then throw the first stone
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post #73 of 171
I support GeoHotz. If he is allowing home-brew to be run without any piracy issues then great. IMHO you should be able to do as you wish with the product you OWN. Sure Sony can own the name and propriety OS on the PS3 but other than that they own little else and I think its up to the customers what they wish to install on there PS3.
post #74 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by supaspoon View Post
Sigh, the agreement, or portions thereof, means nothing when it contradicts the law. EULA doesn't mean anything until you try to enforce it in court, and they're tossed out as b.s. all the time.
And how does Sony's agreement saying that you can't modify THEIR intellectual property (security measures, etc.) contradict the law? If anything it's in DEFENSE of the law that is protecting their intellectual property.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kppanic View Post
..

They DID accidentally give out the key. You mean if it was not accident, they gave it away intentionally?

It took years because we didn't know where and what to look for.
... your first two statements completely contradict each other. If it took us years, Sony obviously didn't hand it to us. Sony did NOT go up to GeoHot and say "Here's the secret key to all our PS3s, it's the same for all PS3s. Enjoy!" GeoHot had to work to reveal the key. Poorly coded != handed to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kppanic View Post
Also if you look at closely at ANY EULAs and followed it, you'd be breaking their Agreement (NOT LAW) if you ever flashed any piece of hard with any custom firmware. Is my router company going to sue the person who came up with a custom firmware that is perhaps better than the stock firmware they put out on the market?
Legally, if they wanted to, they can, and would win. Consider us lucky that these manufacturers don't waste the funds/effort to track down everyone that DOES install custom firmware.

The other main issue everyone is failing to see is that he has distributed the tools to bypass the security. Even if all your ridiculous claims that it is totally legal to decompile Sony's intellectual property, it wouldn't be legal to distribute the tools to the public, very well knowing that the mass majority of the public will use it to exploit and pirate games.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 1/14/11 at 9:10am
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post #75 of 171
I think most people are missing the point.

He can mod his own console all he wants. And in fact I don't think Sony gives a crap about that. What he did was circumvent Sony's security on the system and publish it for the masses. To me that is textbook for some for of copyright infringment. Not to mention whether it was his intention or not he can be taken to court for willing promoting/helping piracy.

Just look at grokster and limewire. While the programs themselves did not pirate anything the companies allowed them to be used that way (effectively promoting/enabling piracy).

So yes you can modify YOUR console. But you should not be allowed to break the encryption and share it to the whole world and think your okay cause you bought the console. I hope he looses, and I hope Sony learned its lesson and to make encryption keys random or however it works.

I look at it this way. You have an electric lock on your door. I break the code and give/sell it to someone else who then steals stuff from you. I bet you would come after me as well as the person who robbed you.
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post #76 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
And how does Sony's agreement saying that you can't modify THEIR intellectual property (security measures, etc.) contradict the law? If anything it's in DEFENSE of the law that is protecting their intellectual property.
See edited post previous page.

It contradicts the law because it interferes upon consumer rights laws. Where it becomes a problem is when they assert that protecting THEIR intellectual property, that they are SELLING as PART OF A PRODUCT to CONSUMERS, should trump consumer rights laws.
Edited by supaspoon - 1/14/11 at 9:10am
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post #77 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
And how does Sony's agreement saying that you can't modify THEIR intellectual property (security measures, etc.) contradict the law? If anything it's in DEFENSE of the law that is protecting their intellectual property.




... your first two statements completely contradict each other. If it took us years, Sony obviously didn't hand it to us. Sony did NOT go up to GeoHot and say "Here's the secret key to all our PS3s, it's the same for all PS3s. Enjoy!" GeoHot had to work to reveal the key. Poorly coded != handed to you.
Sony certainly didn't OPENLY give it out. But they still did.

You're still not reading what I am trying to say. I'll make it short.

The questions in an exam contains the answers. Nobody knew about it, until later when ONE person said "HEY LOOK the answer was in the question all the time."
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post #78 of 171
like you never jailbroken a phone or loaded mac os x like your never had a cracked application like you never had that 1995 game you wanted to play but could not find in stores but you got it somehow..HHHMMMMM
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post #79 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by kppanic View Post
Sony certainly didn't OPENLY give it out. But they still did.

You're still not reading what I am trying to say. I'll make it short.

The questions in an exam contains the answers. Nobody knew about it, until later when ONE person said "HEY LOOK the answer was in the question all the time."
If it was DURING the test that a single student decrypted the test and handed the answer out to everyone in the class you honestly don't think the teacher would retest them or discipline them and fail the ones that cheated?

After the test was taken, why would it matter if they discovered that the questions had the answers the whole time? They already took it. There's no going back. Sort of a fail analogy. You can't decompile a test in its raw form to find its answers (like the PS3's security) your example is inferring that the teacher wrote some kind of random string of letters or numbers at the bottom of the test, easily seen by the students who can then try to decipher it for answers. That is not at all like the case with the PS3. Geo actually had to break apart the PS3's software, aka decompile.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 1/14/11 at 9:21am
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post #80 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
If it was DURING the test that a single student decrypted the test and handed the answer out to everyone in the class you honestly don't think the teacher would retest them or discipline them and fail the ones that cheated?

After the test was taken, why would it matter if they discovered that the questions had the answers the whole time? They already took it. There's no going back. Sort of a fail analogy.
So what your saying is if everyone noticed it in the exam and used it to get a good grade they are not cheating per say but would get re tested.

But in geo hots case he figured out the answers for in the exam and then provided those answers to his classmates. Thus making him a cheat, and those that took his answer key cheats as well.

And i fully agree with you.
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