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post #41 of 70
GNOME is tacky. There is little integration at all. It's made up of bits and pieces that somehow fit together. I don't need to go looking throughout the web for themes for KDE, I can find them without even opening a browser. Same goes for plasmoids and splash screens. I don't need 2 different menus with arbitrary arrangement of menu items (What differentiates an Administration or a Preference item? Or Accessories and System Tools?), I just search for whatever I want to run.

I have also had fun with the GNOME panels on occasion. I've never had one just die on me (I don't think), but I've sure had one decide that my previously locked applet arrangement wasn't good enough and needed to be randomly rearranged. It's particularly bad in a Virtualbox guest, but it also happens to me less frequently with a host running GNOME. I've never had anything like this happen with KDE. That said, I've had my issues with KDE (or kdm, to be more specific) as well.

It took me a while to get used to KDE, but I can't stand GNOME any more. Both DEs have issues that you'll run into eventually. One that annoys me to no end is that no mainstream WM globally keeps track of the last position and dimensions of an open window. I really don't like "smart" (pseudorandom) placement of application windows every time I open them, I want them to be where I last left them. Fortunately KWin is able to keep track of this if you explicitly tell it to for every individual application that you want it to remember (carefully ensuring that you don't accidentally have popup dialogs maximise all the time), but I'd much prefer it if I could just tell it to do it by default. I don't think metacity can do this, although I vaguely remember compiz possibly being able to do it but it was a bit of a hassle to get there.
    
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post #42 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
I just don't know honestly what everyone else is doing though. I've used KDE on Kubuntu, openSUSE, Slackware, and Fedora all without these massive problems people keep talking about. Outside of accidentally enabling "snow" effect on a friends laptop which promptly froze his laptop. Nothing that has taken my ability to do things has happened. Unlike Gnome in which the damn taskbars die all the time and take the OS with them.
For me, if I play with plasmoids at all, I can almost guarantee a crash. And I've never had that menu bar issue in gnome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Greetz
Ubuntu is the main reason that Gnome has become, for a time, the "face of Linux" and that is because it is promoted as a Beginners Linux. It's still Linux so there is some f the power still there somewhere. It also enjoyed the luck of good timing since it really gathered steam when Vista failed so badly. I don;t consider any of the three mentioned, Ubuntu, Mint or Fedora polished. Ubuntu and it's daughter Mint are just dimbed down for convenience sake. That's not polish. Fedora is a testbed for RHEL and is very often buggy compared to more stable, actually polished distros like Arch, Debian, Slackware and Suse.

The facts are that KDE does more but takes more to do it. That's a fair tradeoff for many
especially since Windows has fueled leaps in hardware requirements making KDE fast and minimal compared to common hardware these days.

If we accept the logic of Ubuntu et al being more polished just because it is glitzy and user friendly, follow that through to it's conclusion and you're back on Windoze.

Most importantly the thread is titled "What's so awesome about kde anyway?" NOT why do you like Gnome better.
I actually do feel Mint (haven't tried ubuntu in a long time, but it's so similiar) is more polished than your average distro. I spent the last 4 weeks using Arch. After 95% of things were done and how I liked them, it took so much effort, and still there were wierd things popping up that didn't make sense to me. The best part? It ran no faster and only like 50mb less in ram. I'm keeping the partition, as it was a great learning tool, but mint works far better for me and it is far easier to do what I need to most of the time.
    
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post #43 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Even now that its a little more stable, 90% of the KDE SC is useless bloat. People will usually just install the entire thing, and last I checked, there is so much stuff crammed into it that half of it breaks on first boot unless you're using a preconfigured distro like Kubuntu or openSuSE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Also, the only issues I have with KDE are in the unstable versions. 4.5 RC had more bugs in it than should have been possible, given the feature set, but then a week later the actual release comes out and every thing is magically fine..

I think KDE is trolling us with the unstable releases.
I think that's the problem. While a lot of people don't see the issues, it's that KDE releases things initially with more bugs. You look at the original KDE4 and it wasn't very good to start with. It shaped up in 4.3 and 4.4, but the 4.5 SC does have it's problems. When you compare that to Gnome, since 2.24, it's been pretty stable. At least it has for me, though this is probably due to the Ubuntu backing. For whatever reason, KDE still has the reputation of being a little unstable. I will give KDE the props though for being quite a bit more updated. Such as, gnome still heavily depends on hal while KDE doesn't. It seems KDE development moves on a little faster, at whatever cost that may be. I can run a 100% hal free system on KDE/Debian, where as XFCE/Gnome and some other DEs can't. Just like all bleeding edge/new software you are going to encounter problems.

With that said, the big plus about KDE is that it uses newer features for lack of a better way to put things.
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post #44 of 70
Actually I don't think it has much to do with Ubuntu at all. Whatever Canonical does to Gnome stays in Ubuntu. I'm actually kind of glad, because they've managed to completely butcher it over the last couple of years. Vanilla Gnome is faster and less buggy than the mess that ships with Ubuntu. Its like comparing a fine steak to a greasy carnival burger. Both come from the same animal, only one of them has been mashed into a pulp and covered in grease.
    
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post #45 of 70
enorbet, I do agree with you. I have nothing against KDE (in fact I'm using openSUSE 11.3 KDE right now), but perhaps my post was misleading. I was merely posting a theory as to why people tend to say unwarranted things about KDE and defend their favour of gnome with very few actual points. I was just saying that I think that gnomes tie with the more popular distros is what make many (aka those without real arguments) like gnome more.
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post #46 of 70
@devoid - Well we are on common ground then since I don;t hate Gnome. In fact in my case, my distro of choice by a huge margin does not even come with Gnome so I have to jump through a few minor hoops to install it. The worst part is my trepidation at what the installer may do because with the exception of Gnome I don't let anything change existing libraries except me. It doesn't really help that for some 5 or 6 years I've had no problems with it. Anyone who reads more than 3 of my posts can guess that I must really want Gnome in to take that risk. It's kinda like I imagine it would be having your virgin daughter date a biker

For me, although I really do enjoy simple pleasures (this excellent cup of Kona for example) the old saw that we only get what we pay for (whether actual or symbolic payment - money ==work symbol) is generally true. Those things with the steepest learning curves for the most part, payoff the biggest dividends. If it's too easy, it very often is worthless.

It certainly shouldn't have meant that the KDE team made that worse by releasing what felt like "too much, too soon", but that is a fact of life in the software world. Perhaps the most difficult decision is when it's ready for prime time. Too soon and rats jump ship. Too late and the silence is deafening. Get the balance right, and you're Valve

It has taken some serious effort but KDE v4 does in fact do more and deeper things and the database integration makes it incredibly fast to run anything. For those who don't know, the KDE team has made the menu and "run" search bar behave much like CLI only better - type a few letters and it begins to list all the possible completions (even with cross-referenced names) and either you see the one you want or you type enough letters to narrow the field to one, It is far faster and more effective than scrolling through menus and that is one simple feature.

People can argue about all but non-issues like bloat all they want. Work takes effort and once learned KDE works harder for you than Gnome does. If all a person runs is the same old 5 apps, then by all means run Gnome or go all the way and use BlackBox. For those that run lots of apps and like learning new ones, KDE does that best and that's "what's so awesome about KDE anyway".

http://www.overclock.net/linux-unix/...l#post10876816

^ this - isn't mine but I think it is a pretty great example of serious productivity
but as my Dad used to say, "That's why they make chocolate and vanilla.
Peace, Out!
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post #47 of 70
this is what i love about linux, thoughtful discussion about what DE to run .

using kde and gnome for the last few years (mainly gnome since it is the default for ubuntu), KDE sorta sucks in ubuntu (but it is great in slackware and arch.)

i didn't understand what kind of mess gnome really was till i ran slackware and gave KDE a go, didn't much like KDE at first, but trying to compile and install a vanilla gnome, having to change little things to make it run, was a bit much imho.

the little things you have to change to get gnome to run correctly, can effect the other DE's on the desktop, explains a lot in the way why most distro concentrate on one or the other.

its like enorbet says, if you really only run the same handful of programs over and over, gnome does a great job, but if you run lots of programs, then kde is the better choice.

and i know eyecandy doesn't mean a whole lot in the real world, but GTK+ programs in KDE are simply ugly, QT is absolutely beautiful imho, when i do design a gui application for my programs, i use QT.

i guess i'm a contradiction, i prefer gnomes simplicity but i admire kde's beauty.
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post #48 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Get the balance right, and you're Valve

Gnome and Valve also have something in common: We've been waiting for version 3 for what seems like ages.
    
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post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Gnome and Valve also have something in common: We've been waiting for version 3 for what seems like ages.
The difference is, we know the version 3 from Valve will be good.
    
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post #50 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
and i know eyecandy doesn't mean a whole lot in the real world, but GTK+ programs in KDE are simply ugly, QT is absolutely beautiful imho, when i do design a gui application for my programs, i use QT.
And QT programs are ugly in Gnome if you don't have it configured right...
I always make my QT and GTK themes the same; you can barely tell the difference.
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